Cursed Exp - Main

[L0771]

That was my first think, but i don't like lose all this work :/

[n9103]

Well, if you do decide to stop supporting it completely, it would benefit the Mod and the Community if you posted which license you'd like to apply to the Mod.
Personally, I believe the CC-BY-SA is a good one.

[L0771]

I haven't read this before, thanks, i reading about this now Xd

[AlyxDeLunar]

Hey L0771, I've run into an issue with the latest version you put out (0.1.2).

Okay, this turned into a small wall of text, my apologies. I have difficulty being concise. Below will be the wall pretty unedited, covering the issue I noticed using the GUI. First though...
I've never noticed blood disappearing from the game by itself. While trying to work on stuff, I noticed that in the spot in your code (around the 1371 line mark in 0.1.2) that removes blood puddles, you seem to be removing the blood entity from the reference table regardless of what check is made (and there are 3 checks I'm not sure what difference there is).
I haven't spent enough time looking at the code to understand exactly what is going on, so I'm not going to make assumptions, but I think there may be an error with the way you are checking blood puddles, and consequently they are never getting removed.

Secondly...
The blood doesn't disappear by itself. At all. I've got blood puddles from the very beginning of the map, and 4 hours in they still sit there. Trying the debug command to remove all the blood puddles also causes a crash.
The crash said that referencing blood was a 'nil' reference. So it seemed the issue is that 'glob.cursed.blood' isn't giving a proper value. I did some searches in the code...
On this version, and the past couple, it seems that 'glob.cursed.blood' isn't actually initialized at any point. The only reference to it I could find was in control.lua, in your ChangeVersion function.

Other than that, it seems it doesn't actually create it, which probably is what is causing this crash, and making the blood not go away, in my game. For reference, this is on a new map, and I don't currently have any existing saves with an older version of the mod for reference. If the behavior is working as expected on old maps, this is most certainly the case.

I reference version 0.0.9, and you do in fact create 'glob.cursed.blood' during the game.onit()
I tried throwing some code in there in oninit to declare glob.cursed.blood and make glob.cursed.others.blood equal to it if it exists. Didn't work though, and it declared an error during the code that removes blood puddles (around line 1371)
Probably works fine on games that already exist, it is just a bit annoying for new games.

[L0771]

I've never noticed blood disappearing from the game by itself. While trying to work on stuff, I noticed that in the spot in your code (around the 1371 line mark in 0.1.2) that removes blood puddles, you seem to be removing the blood entity from the reference table regardless of what check is made (and there are 3 checks I'm not sure what difference there is).
I haven't spent enough time looking at the code to understand exactly what is going on, so I'm not going to make assumptions, but I think there may be an error with the way you are checking blood puddles, and consequently they are never getting removed.

Yes, this is a bug, this must work and now has less code

Code: Select all

local blood = glob.cursed.others.blood
for i = 1, #blood do
	if blood[i] ~= nil and blood[i].entity ~= nil then
		if blood[i].time == 0 then
			if blood[i].entity then
				blood[i].entity.destroy()
			end
			table.remove(blood,i)
		else
			blood[i].time = blood[i].time - 1
		end
	elseif blood[i] ~= nil then
		if blood[i].entity == nil then
			table.remove(blood,i)
		end
	end
end

Secondly...
The blood doesn't disappear by itself. At all. I've got blood puddles from the very beginning of the map, and 4 hours in they still sit there. Trying the debug command to remove all the blood puddles also causes a crash.
The crash said that referencing blood was a 'nil' reference. So it seemed the issue is that 'glob.cursed.blood' isn't giving a proper value. I did some searches in the code...
On this version, and the past couple, it seems that 'glob.cursed.blood' isn't actually initialized at any point. The only reference to it I could find was in control.lua, in your ChangeVersion function.

Other than that, it seems it doesn't actually create it, which probably is what is causing this crash, and making the blood not go away, in my game. For reference, this is on a new map, and I don't currently have any existing saves with an older version of the mod for reference. If the behavior is working as expected on old maps, this is most certainly the case.

I reference version 0.0.9, and you do in fact create 'glob.cursed.blood' during the game.onit()
I tried throwing some code in there in oninit to declare glob.cursed.blood and make glob.cursed.others.blood equal to it if it exists. Didn't work though, and it declared an error during the code that removes blood puddles (around line 1371)
Probably works fine on games that already exist, it is just a bit annoying for new games.

It don't work because i changed glob.cursed.tanks for glob.cursed.others.tanks
for this only must change cursed for cursed.others in line 1606 and 1619 in gui.lua

It's helpful, thank you very much for report this
Update v0.1.3

[AlyxDeLunar]

Oh awesome, I'm glad you were able to make sense out of all that! I'll try things now.

[DraLUSAD]

Blood:

- When you kill, enemy's blood continues with life.
- You need a blood tank to call the living blood and store this
- Living blood "run" to your tanks
- Each blood tank has 64 x 64 of range
- Blood is deleted after 5min

Are you sure its a 64x64, feels like 5x5 to me

Edit 2: There is an exploit, resetting talents and skills ect, gives you T1 10 talents and arrows, you can feely continue to keep resetting (even there is nothing to reset) and you can continue getting talents T1 10's and arrows

Edit 3: Whiles resetting all your stats and talents whiles a cursed mine is present in the world, retrieving it after reset causes a break into the game and sends you back to main menu

[Shirow]

@DraLUSAD
I've been digging through his code and it's a bit of both.
The "detection" kicks in a 64 grid, but it's only "absorbed" within 5 tiles.
There seems to be a routine that treats the blood like an enemy with a slow move speed, and it's supposed to "aggro" or move toward the blood tanks.
I've never witnessed this behavior and have been skimming through to see if I can find the underlying cause.

Reset's typically require the reinitialization of all variables, which due to the script being done piecemeal, is very very likely incomplete (as this is typically done After the completion of features), at the moment I'd take it as a "known broken" exploit.

@L0771
Excellent work! This is by far one of the more enjoyable mods I've played with, and one of the more ambitious ones due to it's high functionality change of core gameplay mechanics (Something I respect and admire)
I'm happy to relay (Either in public forum or in private message) any bugs or suggestions I find in your code (if that's fine with you), but before I do that, just wanted to ask;
What is your current stance toward this Mod? Will you be continuing to develop/maintain it, or are you going to retire it to begin work on a new one?
Regardless of what you do in the future, thank you for the dozens of hours of fun you've given me =)

Blood:

- When you kill, enemy's blood continues with life.
- You need a blood tank to call the living blood and store this
- Living blood "run" to your tanks
- Each blood tank has 64 x 64 of range
- Blood is deleted after 5min

Are you sure its a 64x64, feels like 5x5 to me

Edit 2: There is an exploit, resetting talents and skills ect, gives you T1 10 talents and arrows, you can feely continue to keep resetting (even there is nothing to reset) and you can continue getting talents T1 10's and arrows

Edit 3: Whiles resetting all your stats and talents whiles a cursed mine is present in the world, retrieving it after reset causes a break into the game and sends you back to main menu

[Chernojar]

Hello. Such a problem.



(In the setting of a tick removed from the stacks - did not help)

and



Factorio 0.11.10 x64
Treefarm 1.2.7

How can I solve it?

P.S. I do not know english, so used a translator, excuse the sloppy

[Shirow]

In Options -> Other Settings -> Multiplayer Username
^ CANNOT be Empty.

Hello. Such a problem.



(In the setting of a tick removed from the stacks - did not help)

and



Factorio 0.11.10 x64
Treefarm 1.2.7

How can I solve it?

P.S. I do not know english, so used a translator, excuse the sloppy

[n9103]

RE: Blood
I'm currently staying with .11.5 for my modded game, so perhaps something has cropped up recently.
While the movement is very slow, the blood does pathfind towards the nearest(ish) blood tank.
The blood won't willingly enter an area occupied by other structures, so it can't pass gates, and will try very hard to avoid belts.
Once it gets withing 2.5 tiles of the tank, it will be absorbed.

Personally, I've grown tired of just how slow the blood moves, which leads to a large number of them very slowly oozing around the corners of the entrance to my base. I've edited the blood's entity file and sped it up by x10, and it's much easier to keep the area relatively clean now.

Additionally, I noticed that they will stop very often (IMO, too often given the slow speed they move at) and very regularly and temporarily set the map origin as their destination (debug view).
I'm not entirely sure if this is intended, as the code seems like it would be looking for the tank nearest to the blood itself, and shouldn't care about the initial spawn point. (And it's definitely 0,0, not the base/tower entity, since they still set 0,0 as the target regardless of the base's location.)

In anycase, another shoutout to L0 for this very fun mod.

[Shirow]

Interesting! I'll see if I can port my game "backwards" to an older version (Though I somehow doubt this).
Amusingly my "workaround" was just to change code to increase collection from 5 to 50 tiles. Super "cheaty" but I couldn't figure another workaround at the time (Most of my funnel-plans failed)

[Chernojar]

In Options -> Other Settings -> Multiplayer Username
^ CANNOT be Empty.

О. So easy and simple? Thank you.
Now I can check out mod!

[n9103]

Interesting! I'll see if I can port my game "backwards" to an older version (Though I somehow doubt this).
Amusingly my "workaround" was just to change code to increase collection from 5 to 50 tiles. Super "cheaty" but I couldn't figure another workaround at the time (Most of my funnel-plans failed)

Yea, I tried the range extension too (though not quite as much), but it did feel like too big a cheat.
The speed boost could probably be toned down a bit, but still feels legit (as legit as pools of blood flowing freely over surfaces can be anyway )
All non-editing methods I tried to improve the blood flow (different corners, secondary tanks, fields of belts outside my base pointing towards my base) had little or no effect. Damnable blood pools would even find that little sliver of ground between belts!

Best of luck with back-porting, but I would wager it won't work without more effort than making a new save and getting to the same point.

[Shirow]

Yeah, every so often I notice myself not using parts which lead me to wonder if I should rebalance them.
For instance, the "extra craft" for talents. Code has it so it's Level/10 for chance of extra (so 2/10 is 20% for one extra, where as 12/10 is 120% chance, guarnteeing one, with a 20% chance for a second)

Doing the math

10 talent parts per L1 Talent
20 L1 talents per level
10 levels per 100% chance per Talent Type
10 Talent Types for T4

2,000 L1's required to gaurntee 2x results from Talent Crafting,
Implying that the break even for investment is 2000 L1's
Referring to 20,000 part crafts or 100,000 hearts or 250,000 blood (100 tanks worth)

Assuming you craft this all by hand, that is 100,000 seconds worth of crafting to recoup the investment (27 hours of crafting)
^ Note, that Part Crafting is NOT machine craftable, so NOT editing the mod FORCES 27 hours for the investment to PAY ITSELF OFF. This is MINIMUM time.

In my opinion, this lends itself to be a complete waste of an investment.
Possible ways to rebalance :
1. Allow Parts to be machine craftable, or reduce the crafting time to 1 second, or both. It's really horrible right now to scale.
2. Reduce the number of parts needed per talent (3-6 seems much more sane)
3. Make a SINGLE T4 talent that affects crafting % bonus for ALL parts.
4. Reduce Tier (T2 maybe?)
5. Remove the divisor in the formula (i.e. Talent/1 so each level is 100% boost)

The first two balances are likely the best as right now there is no scalable solution to talents in a crafting route, and these desperately help. (be it blood from enemies or farming trees, it bottlenecks at hand-crafting the long wait 10 part talents)

I'll likely be dropping both crafting time and divider in my version of the mod to balance it against other more desirable talents, and I know how to do those myself....

[n9103]

Automatable (#1) is the better, and IMO much needed change.
Because they aren't automatable, I find myself turning my manualcraftingspeed setting up to a couple hundred when I have to queue up several hundred parts. Not a fun aspect, having to cheat just to reasonably use a central purpose of the blood feature.

[L0771]

I burn the source of the pc on a long weekend and I live in a village ¬¬

Are you sure its a 64x64, feels like 5x5 to me

But each tank attract blood from 64x64.

There is an exploit, resetting talents and skills ect, gives you T1 10 talents and arrows

Fixes for 0.1.4

Whiles resetting all your stats and talents whiles a cursed mine is present in the world

0.1.4

There seems to be a routine that treats the blood like an enemy with a slow move speed, and move toward the blood tanks.
I've never witnessed this behavior and have been skimming through to see if I can find the underlying cause.

Can see this here. I have a problem with transport belts, if you close your base with this, blood don't move.

Excellent work!

Thanks you, I just do it because I enjoy it.

What is your current stance toward this Mod? Will you be continuing to develop/maintain it, or are you going to retire it to begin work on a new one?

I continue maintaining this mod, 100% sure. But i take a break for develop new stuff. I don't like 50 mods different, generally works better one big mod that one modular, and modules works better than 50 little mods.

Hello. Such a problem.

That is my problem, i can't ask if are in MP and kick the player, this part of my code is very ugly, if you start the game without a nickname, can start, but at 5 seconds you have the first bug, whatever, is my bad, i apologize.

P.S. I do not know english, so used a translator, excuse the sloppy

Me too my friend.

The blood won't willingly enter an area occupied by other structures, so it can't pass gates, and will try very hard to avoid belts.D

yea, for this i'm thinking in "steam" of blood, after some time (like 2 min), the blood convert in steam of blood (like a bot), faster and can fly over entities, but less dense (less blood comes to tank)[/quote]

I've grown tired of just how slow the blood moves

I never saw quick blood XD but maybe if is more quick, can change from puddle to steam in... 30-45sec and 30 sec more to delete steam, with this i save a lot of resources, and now can't exist more than 15 puddles for area.

I noticed that they will stop very often and very regularly and temporarily set the map origin as their destination.

They tryes to create a colony of bloods (?) but with that speed, I think they can't go far in time to clear them.

In anycase, another shout out to L0 for this very fun mod.

Thanks you, i remember you are the first helping me.

Amusingly my "workaround" was just to change code to increase collection from 5 to 50 tiles. Super "cheaty" but I couldn't figure another workaround at the time (Most of my funnel-plans failed)

I accept all suggestions

Yea, I tried the range extension too (though not quite as much), but it did feel like too big a cheat.

If you thinks, all "balance", functions, items, entities, recipes, every number, all was thought for me, i don't know where is "big a cheat" (i play skyrim with frostfall without fast travel ¬¬), every stuff where you think is bad, please post here and we can change something.

Doing the math

I like this, but i have problems in my head, i take option 1 (is a postponed change) and 80% of option 5, now every talent have 50% bonus (crafting in hand only)

v0.1.4

- Fixes when kill enemies in MP, now drop talents for everyone depending of lower chance of drop
- Fixes when reset talents or all, don't give talents and arrows
- Now delete all talents, mines and turrets on inventory and destroys own mines and turrets.
- Update to the next version of TreeFarm (thanks drs9999)
- Now talent part can be crafted in machine
- Now every bonus of part's talent have 50% of give a bonus part
- Change the tank graphics

EDIT: i play with factorio 0.11.5 but i think it work on version 0.11.4+ (0.11.10 included)

[n9103]

yea, for this i'm thinking in "steam" of blood, after some time (like 2 min), the blood convert in steam of blood (like a bot), faster and can fly over entities, but less dense (less blood comes to tank) I never saw quick blood XD but maybe if is more quick, can change from puddle to steam in... 30-45sec and 30 sec more to delete steam, with this i save a lot of resources, and now can't exist more than 15 puddles for area.

Seems like an interesting idea. I wouldn't mind seeing it in action. Might wait a little longer for the phase change. Maybe 90-120s.
Seems like a decent way to balance the good planning needed to get the puddles to the tank in time, and not having to obsess over every part of the defense to make sure they get they quickly.
I've taken to deleting bloods on a semi-regular basis, since sometimes they just wander off even when they're close enough to be attracted by a tank, (maybe a pathfinding problem?) and I've noticed a couple dozen just sitting around the enemy's bases after just an hour. I wouldn't be surprised if this were to become a problem with too many ticks used at some point.

They tryes to create a colony of bloods (?) but with that speed, I think they can't go far in time to clear them.

I have no idea, but that sounds plausible enough. When I increased the speed of the puddles this pause became far less noticeable.

Thanks you, i remember you are the first helping me.

No problem. This is a neat concept and I was happy to help contribute in my indirect fashion. Very glad to hear you're going to be sticking with it for a long time.

Amusingly my "workaround" was just to change code to increase collection from 5 to 50 tiles. Super "cheaty" but I couldn't figure another workaround at the time (Most of my funnel-plans failed)

Yea, I tried the range extension too (though not quite as much), but it did feel like too big a cheat.

To me, the default setting of 5x5 is fine if the puddles move faster. But when they're at the default speed, it can be very hard to get them to negotiate a base entrance reliably. I increased the speed, and Shirow increased the radius. Mostly a matter of personal preference in this case. The default settings really do work just fine, but the slow speed gets a little boring to watch, when I make sure puddles can correctly pathfind to the tank.

I do wonder if perhaps the blood pools themselves are a little too small detail to track?
Would it be just as fun if there were no puddles oozing around, but any biters killed inside the blood tank's radius directly added to the amount stored?
But, perhaps this would be even harder to track, so don't worry too much if it's a difficult change, or the idea doesn't seem right to you.

v0.1.4

Yay Update!

EDIT: i play with factorio 0.11.5

Hey, so do I!

[L0771]

I wouldn't mind seeing it in action. Might wait a little longer for the phase change. Maybe 90-120s.

I've augmented the speed, but life time is 30-45, if is too short i can set more, but now have 280% more of speed and steam have 250% more than this, and i've solved the problem if have all transport belt, now the puddle search a way for the transport belts

They tryes to create a colony of bloods (?) but with that speed, I think they can't go far in time to clear them.

I have no idea, but that sounds plausible enough. When I increased the speed of the puddles this pause became far less noticeable.

fixes, i forgot it on changelog

Would it be just as fun if there were no puddles oozing around, but any biters killed inside the blood tank's radius directly added to the amount stored?

I thought this, but are only 5 secs of difference, and you don't use blood tanks in wall, no one bitter die at range of blood tank (if you say range of recollect)

v0.1.5

- Fixes error with Treefarm-Lite (next version of Treefarm)
- Now must refresh bodies in base when respawn or teleport to base
- Foxes error with bank on inventory, now must be deleted when do a step
- Now all bonus items have flying text
- Fixes blood potion text.
- Now can't build more mines or towers than the max of talents (Buy mines or turrets Tier 3)
- Now buy a mine or turret debug their count
- Fixes problem with blood puddle and transport belt
- Changed speed of blood puddle 280%
- Add blood steam with 250% speed of puddle and can cross all entities but lose 25% of blood than puddle
- Now blood puddle have 30-45 sec of life
- Now blood steam have 15 sec of life [s]have no time if is at range of a blood tank[/s]
- Fixes possible issue with a lot of puddles to deleted at same time
- Fixes problem when sometimes not all blood puddles next to tank are deleted
- Now haven't limit of bloods in the map

[n9103]

Updoot! Yay.
Will transition to this version over the next few days, depending on workload.
Looking forward to the collection improvements