Friday Facts #375 - Quality

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FuryoftheStars
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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Axs1 wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:26 pm
What are you supposed to do with the occasional higher quality materials you can't match with others?
The recycler returns 25% of the recipe ingredients.
Or, seems we're talking about higher quality items here, store em till you can use em.
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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by Neutronium »

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:33 pm
Axs1 wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:26 pm
What are you supposed to do with the occasional higher quality materials you can't match with others?
The recycler returns 25% of the recipe ingredients.
Or, seems we're talking about higher quality items here, store em till you can use em.
Absolutely.

The best of what quality offers will come from the longer games using it. I'm sure I'll have stockpiles of all sorts of items of various quality, either to be used in later horizontal expansion, or for future quality runs once I have all of the other prerequisites of the appropriate quality as well.

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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by computeraddict »

Ranakastrasz wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:30 am
What are you supposed to do with the occasional higher quality materials you can't match with others?
Don't produce them without a plan.

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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by Ranakastrasz »

computeraddict wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:45 pm
Ranakastrasz wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:30 am
What are you supposed to do with the occasional higher quality materials you can't match with others?
Don't produce them without a plan.
I mean both when you end up with a bad ratio of quality components, and moreso that there is a small chance of getting an even higher quality. If you are, say filtering off, say, green and red circuits for making high grade modules, but it's early so you only expect +1 quality, but end up with some +2 or even +3 circuits. Would they be useless, or could you substitute them in?

Quality, being random instead of deterministic like productivity, is way harder to plan for, unless you are already doing tons of it, because law of large numbers.
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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by Khagan »

Ranakastrasz wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:12 am
If you are, say filtering off, say, green and red circuits for making high grade modules, but it's early so you only expect +1 quality, but end up with some +2 or even +3 circuits. Would they be useless, or could you substitute them in?
Up to you. Use them now, and sacrifice the extra level of quality that was a 'freebie' anyway; or as already suggested, stash them against the time when you will actively be wanting the better items.

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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by Ranakastrasz »

Khagan wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:41 am
Ranakastrasz wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:12 am
If you are, say filtering off, say, green and red circuits for making high grade modules, but it's early so you only expect +1 quality, but end up with some +2 or even +3 circuits. Would they be useless, or could you substitute them in?
Up to you. Use them now, and sacrifice the extra level of quality that was a 'freebie' anyway; or as already suggested, stash them against the time when you will actively be wanting the better items.
yep, But that is why I was objecting to the "dont overproduce" argument. You don't even have control over that overproduction past a certain point, and certainly don't have control over it tiering up twice, so I wanted to make sure there was a thing to do with items that got overtiered. The whole "This part's quality is too high, I actually can't physically use it as part of an inferior product, making it worthless" thing was my concern.

Sure, its probably a minimal issue, but eh, its not out yet, and that part wasn't clarified yet.
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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Ranakastrasz wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 3:37 pm
Khagan wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 5:41 am
Ranakastrasz wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:12 am
If you are, say filtering off, say, green and red circuits for making high grade modules, but it's early so you only expect +1 quality, but end up with some +2 or even +3 circuits. Would they be useless, or could you substitute them in?
Up to you. Use them now, and sacrifice the extra level of quality that was a 'freebie' anyway; or as already suggested, stash them against the time when you will actively be wanting the better items.
yep, But that is why I was objecting to the "dont overproduce" argument. You don't even have control over that overproduction past a certain point, and certainly don't have control over it tiering up twice, so I wanted to make sure there was a thing to do with items that got overtiered. The whole "This part's quality is too high, I actually can't physically use it as part of an inferior product, making it worthless" thing was my concern.

Sure, its probably a minimal issue, but eh, its not out yet, and that part wasn't clarified yet.
The chances of "overtiering" are small, but applies to everything. So it won't take long to get enough "overtiered" items to make the higher quality product. Your end goal, ultimately, will be making everything (edit: quality related) as Q5, anyway, so it's never going to be "worthless". There's also nothing in place from preventing you from using it or recycling it anyway, either. So you have 3 options on what to do with it:
  1. Use it
  2. Store it
  3. Recycle it
It's your choice on what you want to do based on your goals and preferences.
Last edited by FuryoftheStars on Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by Koub »

FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:08 pm
Your end goal, ultimately, will be making everything as Q5, anyway, so it's never going to be "worthless"
I doubt this is a viable strategy. From my understanding, the way quality is designed, it's meant to be used only on a very limited part of the factory, where extreme optimisation is crucial (stuff for the space platform, weapons and armor, ...). Everything Q5 is supposed to be overkill and a waste of resources for most things.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by Axs1 »

Koub wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:31 pm
For which items does productivity research apply?

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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by computeraddict »

Koub wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:31 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:08 pm
Your end goal, ultimately, will be making everything as Q5, anyway, so it's never going to be "worthless"
I doubt this is a viable strategy. From my understanding, the way quality is designed, it's meant to be used only on a very limited part of the factory, where extreme optimisation is crucial (stuff for the space platform, weapons and armor, ...). Everything Q5 is supposed to be overkill and a waste of resources for most things.
It'll be interesting to see how quality interacts with productivity research. Might math out some hypotheticals later...

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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by Axs1 »

computeraddict wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:40 pm
Koub wrote:
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:08 pm
Your end goal, ultimately, will be making everything as Q5, anyway, so it's never going to be "worthless"
I doubt this is a viable strategy. From my understanding, the way quality is designed, it's meant to be used only on a very limited part of the factory, where extreme optimisation is crucial (stuff for the space platform, weapons and armor, ...). Everything Q5 is supposed to be overkill and a waste of resources for most things.
It'll be interesting to see how quality interacts with productivity research. Might math out some hypotheticals later...
I think it wouldn't change much, it's like putting quality modules in the machines, with the difference that you can have 4 quality modules

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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by computeraddict »

Axs1 wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:55 pm
computeraddict wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:40 pm
It'll be interesting to see how quality interacts with productivity research. Might math out some hypotheticals later...
I think it wouldn't change much, it's like putting quality modules in the machines, with the difference that you can have 4 quality modules
There's a breakpoint where the marginal increase in productivity is outweighed by the benefit of using a different module. This can already be seen in miners with high levels of mining productivity, where speed modules become more attractive than a little extra productivity.

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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by Axs1 »

computeraddict wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:05 pm
Axs1 wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:55 pm
computeraddict wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:40 pm
It'll be interesting to see how quality interacts with productivity research. Might math out some hypotheticals later...
I think it wouldn't change much, it's like putting quality modules in the machines, with the difference that you can have 4 quality modules
There's a breakpoint where the marginal increase in productivity is outweighed by the benefit of using a different module. This can already be seen in miners with high levels of mining productivity, where speed modules become more attractive than a little extra productivity.
Mistake:
I think it wouldn't change much, it's like putting quality productivity modules in the machines, with the difference that you can have 4 quality modules

Since there is a 300% limit, for the late game, the productivity modules for the item that has the productivity research become useless.

although before it reaches the limit, I found that the most optimal thing is to use 1 productivity module and 3 quality modules

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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by FuryoftheStars »

Koub wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 8:31 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote: ↑
Mon Nov 20, 2023 4:08 pm
Your end goal, ultimately, will be making everything as Q5, anyway, so it's never going to be "worthless"
I doubt this is a viable strategy. From my understanding, the way quality is designed, it's meant to be used only on a very limited part of the factory, where extreme optimisation is crucial (stuff for the space platform, weapons and armor, ...). Everything Q5 is supposed to be overkill and a waste of resources for most things.
Apologies for the misunderstanding, my intention here was in reference to everything that you make as a higher quality item, not everything everything (if that helps clarify it).
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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by husnikadam »

I feel like the new naming should address following issues:
  1. Shouldn't imply any sort of chance, rarity or even gamble
  2. All tiers should clearly define the tiers order
  3. All names should be as short as possible as the terms will get used very frequently
Here I have come up with suggestions which comply with the naming requirements:
  1. Normal
  2. Improved
  3. Refined
  4. Exemplary
  5. Perfect
I think it suits the game very well as calling items like that feels very natural and good: "Normal gears, improved chests, refined circuits, exemplary power poles, perfect armor". I wouldn't use term "advanced" as some items (f.e. red circuits) are named like that.

What do you think?

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Re: Friday Facts #375 - Quality

Post by Khagan »

husnikadam wrote: ↑
Fri Feb 09, 2024 11:59 am
Here I have come up with suggestions which comply with the naming requirements:
[...]
What do you think?
Go and add your vote at
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=108777

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