Friday Facts #381 - Space Platforms

[keks244]

i'm a bit unhappy with that items from the platform are just teleported to the planet surface.

Maybe there could be some sort of a drop pod system.
Drop pods are shot into space with the rocket (or produced on the platform) and then items are packed into the drop pods, and pushed back towards the planet.
When they have arrived on the surface they would be unpacked in a new building (kind of a landing platform) and then they can be reused again.
Just like the barrels.

But maybe there is already a new system that they just haven't mentioned yet.

[FuryoftheStars]

Thrusters should definitely accelerate/decelerate the platform, not just "move" it. The video where the thrusters turn off and the platform stop moving looks downright weird. And I imagine that slowly getting one of those things up to speed would just feel a lot more satisfying and interesting (more fast-relative-to-you asteroids in the middle of the journey) than flying around as if velocity is an on/off switch. Bigger platforms / more thrusters would still have the same overall effect gameplay-wise, though.

I know multiple people have mentioned this, and while I tend to agree, I have been thinking about it and think I might know a reason why it wasn't. Imagine an example scenario where you didn't have enough fuel to safely decelerate. The platform would overshoot or crash and be lost. While in and of itself this sounds great, considering that it seems like the bulk of your fuel is supposed to be gathered enroute, and asteroids I'm assuming are RNG, there's a good possibility of this happening on each trip. The wording used in the FFF also leads me to believe that you'll be able to have multiple platforms running around like trains (and even if not, you'll still probably be shuttling the same one back and forth a lot), which means you're increasing the chances of these mishaps happening and just begging for problems.

Yes, realistically it would make a lot more sense for the platform to accelerate and not instantly stop, requiring reverse thrusters to decelerate it, but this would mean changing their fuel system to a method that you can prefill with fuel (which, really, actually makes the most sense and would (probably) realistically use the same fuel as the rocket), and thus either eliminate the need for (or make a pointless hazard out of) asteroids, thus leaving the space inbetween rather empty and boring (as it probably should be). Probably not considered as fun game mechanics, though.

[Gemma]

Those thrusters look juicy. How KSP are we going here with orbits and such? Will thrusters only have to fire when breaking orbit / changing trajectory and such?

(Please call the space space science packs improved/advanced/sigma space science packs, anything other than space science packs in space.)

[Roxor128]

(Please call the space space science packs improved/advanced/sigma space science packs, anything other than space science packs in space.)

I think it's basically the same as Nullius having alternate recipes for its science packs (along with a large chunk of the rest of the game's items). Climate Sample 1 and Climate Sample 2 both produce the same science packs, but have different ingredients (seawater and air for the first, nitrogen, volcanic gas, and wastewater for the second), and produce different numbers and take different amounts of time.

[mrudat]

It looks strange not to have some method for how buildings are placed on the space platform.

Perhaps specialized space spidertrons for construction would be nifty; instead of pointy feet, they grab hold of the platform to move around, and ideally, their animation is impacted by how much thrust is being applied.

Alternatively, something akin to repair turrets?


I'm not sure what sort of impact it might have graphically, but it would be nifty to use a space frame for the platform to see the stars through the platform, with custom integration patches where the buildings are anchored to the frame.

Anyway, I'm wondering about the platform and it's self-constructing abilities, and how flexible that is in regards to mods - could you, for example, play as some kind of alien technovirus slowly converting the planet to a mechanical "paradise"?

Someone please make this mod.

I believe that there are already a few different mods that do something like this, the simplest being to just not spawn in a character, but supply you with a starter base including a roboport and a bunch of construction robots.

[Dixi]

As it was already mentioned, space platform surface look is disturbing. For factory building we prefer grass or some homogenous flat surface, to easy long time observations.

When we build factories on main planet, we can always pick some nice green grass or sandy terrain spot, and comfortably place everything there.

Somewhat monotonous background allow us easily observe factory elements: belts with content, inserters and production units.
But space platform terrain is very erratic.
Could be nice to have an option to build much more homogenous and flat space floor. Like some concrete surface.


About space platform travel method (auto breaking when engine stops). It might not fit classic space travels, but it fit Factorio typical tasks much better. To research and produce something you supply resources. You can do it faster or slower or stop completely, it does not matter, and will not change result. Here is same thing, as we may assume. To get to another planet, you probably have to run engines for NNN seconds. If travel mechanic will appear more complicated this will be not so Factorio style task. I see nothing bad about modding it to acceleration, flight, braking. But in base game, burning for NNN seconds to get to destination sounds more reasonable.
Factorio is not KSP, at last.

[nuhll]

I dont like the "put items in space" that doesnt belong to factorio... what about a simple recycler? Burn it? what about resmelt it to something usefull? (like in an gels with ore soup?)

overall it seems just too easy

[Fisherman]

Does oxidizer production gives waste by-products? Do they just get thrown off-board?
While I can get using carbon and water for liquid fuel (methane, methanol and ethanol are all used for liquid fuel and could be made from carbon and water), I don't quite understand reason for adding iron ore to make oxidizer, aside from being just reaction mass (and to make acquiring oxidizer not so easy as just pumping liquid oxygen into engine).

[dzaima]

Regarding the "magic build technology" placing the surface structures / buildings on the surface by ghost building; is there already an official dev answer, how the lore is on this?

As a way-out and additional logistics exercise I'dlike to add the idea of having another surface building, akin to a large Canadarm, which gets placed on the surface and is able to put down actual buildings on designated ghost areas.

An alternative to a separate thing for doing the building would be to allow the asteroid-collecting "mechanical tentacles" to double as a thing that can place down entities (within some range), presumably one being included in the initial building.

[yktktlk]

Building mechanic on platforms sounds a little bit off. I dunno, maybe there are some nuances or yet unannounced mechanics but without robots or hand-made building, i think it would take away the immersion out of the game that is all about building.


I don't want to be critical obviously until we know all the details.

[morhp]

I dont like the "put items in space" that doesnt belong to factorio... what about a simple recycler? Burn it? what about resmelt it to something usefull? (like in an gels with ore soup?)

Causing pollution is kinda the whole point of Factorio, so I think that fits well. I also wouldn't be against it if that worked also on planets (dumping stuff in lakes for example). Also the recycler was already revealed in the Quality FFF, I'm sure you will be able to use it on space platforms where it makes sense.

[ImHiva]

Is this a preview of the new big update? Or what do these Friday facts mean?

[conn11]

Amazing news! And still, the new planets will ad even more content.
Since Nuclear seems to become a much more viable option in space. This would be a perfect oppertunity to introduce Plutonium into the mix.

[morsk]

FFF notices some logistics are "incredibly annoying":

The problem was, that the actual gameplay produced by this system proved to be incredibly annoying very quickly. The reason is, that you need many different items in small quantities to build all the platform mini-factory and the only reasonable solution to do that was weird.
You had to filter the inventory slots in the silo, so each of the items would have a dedicated space, and then to bring every individual item to the silo.

Build trains have always been this annoying. :/

Configuring this wasn't fun. On top of that, all the items had to be backed-up in the silo AND the chests.

Just like build trains. :/

I would have liked a general solution here, which we could also use for trains supplying building materials to outposts. Unfortunately the "ghost -> item request" conversion would only work for space platforms, where there's one network per surface. Also I dislike large numbers of ghosts unbuilt, as the construction manager handles it poorly. (I guess it can work on space platforms because they're small, but it scales badly.) I prefer to request things in buffer chests, and only build the blueprint when I have it all.

I don't have a suggestion. I just wish the same "Gee, this is incredibly annoying," lense could be turned on build trains, and someone could come up with tools for turning blueprints into item requests that we can send between train stations ... somehow.

[XelSelenius]

Questions:
1 - Are there orbital surfaces where we can park the platform?
2 - Why not have a Cargo Rocket with Liquid Fuel as in SE? It can be automated just like trains.
3 - If the complexity of SE is the automation of Spaceships, and the platforms fix this, why don't we insert SE2 as a 2.0 instead?
PS:
4 - Why not have Space trains and Space Elevators? That was one of the coolest things in SE - Direct link to Orbit.
5 - I don't remember the full post about the trains revamp, but what about Electric Trains? That could work in Space.

[Anachrony]

The gameplay of this was designed by me, kovarex and v453000 together.

But If you still don't know what SE is all about, read up on Arcosphere usage and production, though do for sure avoid the spoilers.

Are you responding to Earendel and telling them if they still don't know what SE is all about to read up about it but avoid spoilers?

[thermomug]

First of all, I love the aesthetics of the space platform (they remind me a lot of certain starcraft 1 maps) and the thrusters especially, they look awesome!

I am a bit surprised by the odd building rules on space platforms... just let players place burner buildings and let them NOT work. (display a message in the building menu saying "no air"). Let the player place roboports and bots, but then let the bots float away uncontrollably (or even crash into buildings), just like the dumped resources/asteroids. This type of knowledge gain would feel a lot more natural and immersive than saying "you cannot do this for gameplay reasons". Also, why exactly cannot platforms have holes?

I am quite sceptical about the whole concept of "Space" in this expansion. (Real) Space is EXTREMELY vast and EXTREMELY empty. There isn't an ocean of asteroids floating around in space and generally, everything you need, you have to bring yourself. Here, the asteroids act as a type of "rope" or "water" that the craft can shimmy along or push itself off, but that is not how space travel works at all... Why not introduce dedicated asteroid fields as intermediate stops to refuel the craft? I am not expecting physics like in KSP that strongly follow the classical rocket equations, but having a tradeoff between speed, fuel consumption/storage and intermediate stop count would certainly work. Also, I would welcome if not all of the propellant could be mined in space directly, but part of it/a certain ingredient must be brought in from nauvis. Why have two components of fuel anyway if both are entirely space-made?

The asteroids moving faster towards the platform when the thrusters are firing and becoming more dangerous is very good in creating a natural difficulty balance, just like with pollution and biter attacks. However, when thrusters (and the platform with them) can be stopped in an instant, I imagine no real dangerous situations to occur. Because pollution can accumulate over time, you can create your own time-delayed threat as you pump huge amounts of it into the air. Why does it not work the same with space platforms? Here, accumulation would mean that thrusters accelerate the platform instead of just moving it. (Wow, just like real physics!). This idea would also play along with the aforementioned tradeoffs..

Don't get me wrong, I am certain that "Space Age" will be an awesome game and lots of fun. You guys proved multiple times how well thought out and refined your work is. I am just worried that it won't feel "spacey" (vastness, real physics, blah blah) at all. As I doubt that you will implement such profound changes as the ones I suggested, just regard my jabber as an idea collection for a possible rebalance-mod. Speaking of rebalance, I hope Efficiency Modules 1 will finally be nerfed (keyword: miners) and higher tier efficiency modules buffed, so using them in endgame builds becomes a viable option.

Oh no, written so much again... keep your ears stiff (a german saying) and see you next week !

[adam_bise]

Woohoo!! Can't wait to try this out!

[computeraddict]

For the people who are worried about space dumping, remember that groundside you have total control over what you collect and produce, so if you don't want something you can just not produce it. Meanwhile in space you have no control over what the grabbers grab, so you have to have some way of avoiding jams. The alternative would be to have filter tentacles, but that seems unfun and a distinct spike in complexity.

[BozAus]

Loving the look and feel of all of this, especially the boosters, their animations and effects look amazing!

One question though, and I'm sure this will have been answered.

Its been a while since I've been able to play, am I better off building on a new map for 2.0, or would modifications to an existing base not be too bad?

Cheers