[MOD 0.14-1.0]Helmod: Assistant to plan its base.

[KiwiHawk]

Not sure what you mean sorry. Can you take some example screenshot and annotate them, explaining how you'd like lines to link?

[mrvn]

Say I have the following block in Angel/Bob:

helmod.png (138.88 KiB) Viewed 4891 times

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Copy blueprint

Salt water and mineralized water are required outputs for the block this is linked too. I've set them and excluded the parent block to keep this simple. The block is in matrix mode.

First thing to notice: The input/outputs are all screwed up. Where does the H2 and O2 go? The electrodes and slag should be 0. Also the electrolyzers run at 0% but produce stuff?

Now you notice that this block produces an excess of distilled water. Say I don't want that. I want to mark the distilled water in the green circle to use up all available distilled water. And then I want the electrolysers to use up all the available electrodes and output slag as excess product for example.

Or I could go on: use up all available slag, use up all available crushed stone, produce an excess of mineralized water.

But don't limit yourself on water. Water is easily produced by the offshore pump. So I don't want to input limit the block by water.

Hope that makes sense.

[KiwiHawk]

First thing to notice: The input/outputs are all screwed up. Where does the H2 and O2 go? The electrodes and slag should be 0. Also the electrolyzers run at 0% but produce stuff?

This is the recipe order bug in matrix solver that I was referring to earlier. There is no demand for any of the products produced by the second line in your example. So it can't set the percentage.

This is what it looks like if you swap the second and third lines:

Capture.png (210.1 KiB) Viewed 4859 times

Now you notice that this block produces an excess of distilled water. Say I don't want that. I want to mark the distilled water in the green circle to use up all available distilled water. And then I want the electrolysers to use up all the available electrodes and output slag as excess product for example.

Or I could go on: use up all available slag, use up all available crushed stone, produce an excess of mineralized water.

Yes, you can currently do that. But need to use multiple blocks. I do plan on changing it so that it can be done in a single block. By allowing individual lines to be linked by input / output.

Production Line:

Capture1.png (109.68 KiB) Viewed 4857 times

Block 1:

Capture2.png (57.66 KiB) Viewed 4859 times

Block 2:

Capture3.png (185.76 KiB) Viewed 4859 times

Block 3:

Capture4.png (48.42 KiB) Viewed 4859 times

[mrvn]

I think I picked a bad example. With the electrodes only looped internally the block only has the distilled water as input. So you can use the input driven way.

I know I had cases with blocks having 2 or more inputs but it's hard to make one up on the spot.

It's interesting to see the matrix solver depend on the order of recipes though. I thought I had looked at it years ago and that it was a linear solver that shufels around the matrix to minimize. The order really shouldn't matter. But maybe I remember wrong, you changed the algorithm in the last years or I missed some additional steps.

But if, as you showed, the order is that crucial there really needs to be sort. And a warning when sorting becomes impossible. Getting those impossible numbers is annoying. Is there a simple way to reset those percentages? Sometimes I play around with the matrix solver and it doesn't work or I don' care about the perfect ratios that much and then I have to turn it off, go through all the recipes and reset them to 100%.

PS: I still don't get why the 0% line shows it has inputs and outputs. At 0% it should be all 0 and then the totals at the top would probably be correct.

[FritzHugo3]

Are there any technical chance for that please make a method for have the list as textform or a picture or so.
I love the calculator realy but this write per hand in excel for check what i have right now build and so - this steals a ton of time and its not realy a nice job to copy all in a table.
For smal build things you can open the calculator to saw what you need next but if you plan big things like complete base or a bigger mod-mall its also not a good think to make 30 screenshots or so for the second monitor.

Or are they any "encoder"/webside who can read the production line upload text code (like this Y8W10oZPzi7....) to show it at a ofgame programm where we can copy it in excel or some else? (as txt or picture for print/second monitor)

thx for reading and have all a great day.

[KiwiHawk]

Are there any technical chance for that please make a method for have the list as textform or a picture or so.
I love the calculator realy but this write per hand in excel for check what i have right now build and so - this steals a ton of time and its not realy a nice job to copy all in a table.
For smal build things you can open the calculator to saw what you need next but if you plan big things like complete base or a bigger mod-mall its also not a good think to make 30 screenshots or so for the second monitor.

Or are they any "encoder"/webside who can read the production line upload text code (like this Y8W10oZPzi7....) to show it at a ofgame programm where we can copy it in excel or some else? (as txt or picture for print/second monitor)

thx for reading and have all a great day.

No, this doesn't exist. You could make a website to decide the export string. It's base64 encoded. You'd need to pull in all the recipe information from somewhere else though.

[BlueTemplar]

Heads up for newly released Exotic Industries having issues with steam assemblers :

exotic_indstries_bug.png (123.24 KiB) Viewed 4191 times

Speed should be 0.5 (and steam shouldn't be negative) - note that the popup shows a speed limitation warning like with speed modules... might be related to the changes the mod makes to beacons ??

exotic_industries_bug2.png (110.73 KiB) Viewed 4191 times

exotic_industries_beacons.png (844.31 KiB) Viewed 4191 times

(might be the fault of the mod instead/too of course)

[KiwiHawk]

Heads up for newly released Exotic Industries having issues with steam assemblers :
Speed should be 0.5 (and steam shouldn't be negative)

Thanks for reporting this! Fixed in Helmod 0.12.15

[mrvn]

The way helmod selects what machine to use for a recipe is broken, maybe only when you set a default.

Specific example: I've set a default that ore should be mined with an electric miner with 2 productivity modules. But that then means the special crude oil recipe will use an electric miner instead of a pump jack. Selecting the electric miner to bring up the machine / modules dialog the electric miner isn't even a choice for crude oil.

Helmod should never use a machine for a recipe that isn't possible for the recipe.

[Dr_Njitram]

We are playing a big multiplayer server with a setup that 'forces' mixed beacons: a mod adds small productivity beacons. They are used together with regular beacons filled with speed modules.
There is currently not a way to accommodate this in helmod.

Would it be possible to add a way to have more than 1 beacon, or, to kinda circumvent it, add a way to set/add productivity manually. Then we can just see what the added productivity is and add that in manually.

[KiwiHawk]

Would it be possible to add a way to have more than 1 beacon

It's on our list. No idea when we'll get around to it though.

[NIronwolf]

Is it just me or does "UI Glue" not seem to be functioning?

Latest version of course, but I am running very high resolution screen. 7680x2160 So my width factor is quite low at 0.24 and height is 0.8.

How I think UI Glue is supposed to work is any sub window will open and be positioned to the right of the main window right next to it. If I leave Glue off it seems to remember where the window was last opened, but if I turn it on, it's snapping the left edge of the screen. The Glue offset doesn't seem to do anything either.

Am I just not using it right?

[Illiander42]

Floating point error:

Shown easily with the following setup:

Assembler 3s with 4 Prod 3s. 8 Speed 3 Beacons per assembler. 7.7 Vanilla Red Science per second should need 5 assemblers.

Helmod says 6. Floating point issue confirmed by asking for 7.69r Red Science per second.

[Jupiter]

Hi all. I'm deciding between Factory planner and Helmod. Which one is better? Are there any significant differences?

[mrvn]

Floating point error:

Shown easily with the following setup:

Assembler 3s with 4 Prod 3s. 8 Speed 3 Beacons per assembler. 7.7 Vanilla Red Science per second should need 5 assemblers.

Helmod says 6. Floating point issue confirmed by asking for 7.69r Red Science per second.

You can set the precision shown in the settings. Default is to show integers. If the math says 5.01 it will round up to 6 by default I believe.

[Illiander42]

Floating point error:

Shown easily with the following setup:

Assembler 3s with 4 Prod 3s. 8 Speed 3 Beacons per assembler. 7.7 Vanilla Red Science per second should need 5 assemblers.

Helmod says 6. Floating point issue confirmed by asking for 7.69r Red Science per second.

You can set the precision shown in the settings. Default is to show integers. If the math says 5.01 it will round up to 6 by default I believe.

And that's the correct behaviour, when the math is correct.

In this case, the math is wrong. (I put in 7.7 because it's preciecely the right amount)

[mrvn]

Floating point error:

Shown easily with the following setup:

Assembler 3s with 4 Prod 3s. 8 Speed 3 Beacons per assembler. 7.7 Vanilla Red Science per second should need 5 assemblers.

Helmod says 6. Floating point issue confirmed by asking for 7.69r Red Science per second.

You can set the precision shown in the settings. Default is to show integers. If the math says 5.01 it will round up to 6 by default I believe.

And that's the correct behaviour, when the math is correct.

In this case, the math is wrong. (I put in 7.7 because it's preciecely the right amount)

Is it wrong or is it imprecise? Do you still get 6 when you set the output precision in helmod to 0.00 instead of the default of 0?

[Illiander42]

Floating point error:

Shown easily with the following setup:

Assembler 3s with 4 Prod 3s. 8 Speed 3 Beacons per assembler. 7.7 Vanilla Red Science per second should need 5 assemblers.

Helmod says 6. Floating point issue confirmed by asking for 7.69r Red Science per second.

You can set the precision shown in the settings. Default is to show integers. If the math says 5.01 it will round up to 6 by default I believe.

And that's the correct behaviour, when the math is correct.

In this case, the math is wrong. (I put in 7.7 because it's preciecely the right amount)

Is it wrong or is it imprecise? Do you still get 6 when you set the output precision in helmod to 0.00 instead of the default of 0?

5.01. Which is still wrong. The correct answer is 5.

[mrvn]

Floating point error:

Shown easily with the following setup:

Assembler 3s with 4 Prod 3s. 8 Speed 3 Beacons per assembler. 7.7 Vanilla Red Science per second should need 5 assemblers.

Helmod says 6. Floating point issue confirmed by asking for 7.69r Red Science per second.

You can set the precision shown in the settings. Default is to show integers. If the math says 5.01 it will round up to 6 by default I believe.

And that's the correct behaviour, when the math is correct.

In this case, the math is wrong. (I put in 7.7 because it's preciecely the right amount)

Is it wrong or is it imprecise? Do you still get 6 when you set the output precision in helmod to 0.00 instead of the default of 0?

5.01. Which is still wrong. The correct answer is 5.

That might just be floating point precision for you. What is helmod supposed to do about it? round the result instead of ceil? Round it to the nearest 5 figures and then ceil to the display precision?

[Illiander42]

That might just be floating point precision for you. What is helmod supposed to do about it? round the result instead of ceil? Round it to the nearest 5 figures and then ceil to the display precision?

I did say it's a floating point error at the start.

And the ways to deal with floating point errors and get perfect precision are well known. Pretty sure factorio only uses rational numbers, which makes it easy.