[MOD 0.14-1.0]Helmod: Assistant to plan its base.

[Zyrconia]

Sorry if stupid question, but the button to add a "power" calculation is gone and I can't figure out how to add power to Helmod.

Older saves where the power lines were saved still work.

[KiwiHawk]

The power recipes are now in the regular recipe selector, under the Helmod tab

[Zyrconia]

The power recipes are now in the regular recipe selector, under the Helmod tab

Thank you for the answer! Found them!

Just in time for rolling blackout in Bob & Angel's .

[BlueTemplar]

When pasting one production block inside another, the recipes are added in-between each other.
It seems that it would be better if they were added at the end ?

(Also, ideally, there would be a difference in icons between copy/pasting a production line and a production block...)

P.S.: It would also be nice if even the first block could be linked, that way when you paste it into another line, it will be pasted already linked !

[BlueTemplar]

Pyanodons Alien Life's moondrop-seeds for some reason trigger the Recipe selector (and the relatively slow «Wait list build») even though there's only one recipe ?
I'm guessing that it's somehow related to how they make (and take) two distinct sets of items (one fixed, one random) ?
(Not sure, maybe it's not worth «fixing» ?)

P.S.: Also, on the mod portal, Homepage links to GitHub (again, after Source) instead of here. (Then both links are repeated in the long description just below.)

[mrvn]

I'm trying to use "Compute by Factory" but it doesn't work like the other solvers.

Can I mark a recipe to use only excess materials, i.e. be input driven?

Say you want to figure out the right ratios for oil production with the advanced recipe. So you add

1) split light oil
2) split heavy oil
3) split crude oil

Recipe 1 and 2 should be input driven and use up all the light/heavy oil. And recipe 3 should get calculated to produce the required amount of output.

"Compute by Element" and "Matrix solver" get this right but "Compute by Factory" produces excess light and heavy oil.

Update: I figured it out. I started by setting the output to 100 Petroleum gas and only then changed it to "Compute by Factory". It then limits the factories where you do set a limit and makes up the required 100 Petroleum any other way. And you can't change the amount of Petroleum produced in "Compute by Factory" mode.

So can this be fixed? The output amounts should be editable even in "Compute by Factory" mode or it should ignore the set amount.

[KiwiHawk]

I'm trying to use "Compute by Factory" but it doesn't work like the other solvers.

Can I mark a recipe to use only excess materials, i.e. be input driven?

Say you want to figure out the right ratios for oil production with the advanced recipe. So you add

1) split light oil
2) split heavy oil
3) split crude oil

Recipe 1 and 2 should be input driven and use up all the light/heavy oil. And recipe 3 should get calculated to produce the required amount of output.

"Compute by Element" and "Matrix solver" get this right but "Compute by Factory" produces excess light and heavy oil.

Update: I figured it out. I started by setting the output to 100 Petroleum gas and only then changed it to "Compute by Factory". It then limits the factories where you do set a limit and makes up the required 100 Petroleum any other way. And you can't change the amount of Petroleum produced in "Compute by Factory" mode.

So can this be fixed? The output amounts should be editable even in "Compute by Factory" mode or it should ignore the set amount.

Here's an example of using Compute by factory in Ingredient input mode.

Capture1.png (126.09 KiB) Viewed 4253 times

I'm not sure what you mean sorry. Can you post some screenshots of it not working correctly please?
Edit: I get what you mean now. Yes, I agree. Output amounts should be editable even in "Compute by factory" mode.

[FritzHugo3]

Hi, i miss three buttons

01. One button, how we can undo (or together) a linked block - how i reinsert the "convert this recipe to a block" - how reintegrate it?

02. Must i do all by hand from top reciep downer and down the incredience? are there not a button for automating splitting all to the smalest recource?
For complicate Items this is over an houre work by hand.

03. Where is the button to make the list clear and delete automated the doubled recieps? (so that i havent 10 times the reciep from iron plates or what ever). This deleting by hand are the next houre work by hand for complicate recieps.

04. it could be so much easier for the workflow that the list dont go always to top if we delete a recipe.

It is realy a wonderfull and helpfull mod, many thx for this but this things is a must have i found, is it in and i didnt find it? Or please put it in the next version - this will be great.

Many thx for the great job.

[KiwiHawk]

Hi, I miss three buttons

01. One button, how we can undo (or together) a linked block - how I reinsert the "convert this recipe to a block" - how reintegrate it?

02. Must I do all by hand from top recipe downer and down the ingredients? are there not a button for automating splitting all to the smallest resource?
For complicate Items this is over an hour work by hand.

03. Where is the button to make the list clear and delete automated the doubled recipes? (so that I haven't 10 times the recipe from iron plates or what ever). This deleting by hand are the next hour work by hand for complicate recipes.

04. it could be so much easier for the workflow that the list don't go always to top if we delete a recipe.

It is really a wonderful and helpful mod, many thx for this but this things is a must have I found, is it in and I didn't find it? Or please put it in the next version - this will be great.

Many thx for the great job.

01. Copy the new block, paste it back into the old block, then delete the new block.

02. Yes, you have to pick all the recipes manually. If there is only a single recipe for an ingredient, this only takes a single click. If there are multiple recipes for an ingredient, then there is no way for Helmod to know which one you want to use.

03. This is a good idea! I'll log it.

04. I already have this one logged.

I can't promise that 03 and 04 will be in the next version. It depends on how much time I have.

[mrvn]

Relevant to 03: It would be nice if items could be sorted (as long as there are no loops). If new items are inserter before the recipes for it's inputs then adding duplicates would be less likely too.

But don't prevent duplicates from being added. Sometimes you want them because the output of the recipe is used for different things and you want to see the correct ratios for each use.

[KiwiHawk]

Pyanodons Alien Life's moondrop-seeds for some reason trigger the Recipe selector (and the relatively slow «Wait list build») even though there's only one recipe ?
I'm guessing that it's somehow related to how they make (and take) two distinct sets of items (one fixed, one random) ?

Thanks for reporting this. Yes, it was because the recipe has the moondrop seeds twice in it's products. This will be fixed in the next version of Helmod.

P.S.: Also, on the mod portal, Homepage links to GitHub (again, after Source) instead of here. (Then both links are repeated in the long description just below.)

I've updated the link.

[KiwiHawk]

Relevant to 03: It would be nice if items could be sorted (as long as there are no loops). If new items are inserter before the recipes for it's inputs then adding duplicates would be less likely too.

But don't prevent duplicates from being added. Sometimes you want them because the output of the recipe is used for different things and you want to see the correct ratios for each use.

I was thinking of only doing the sort / deduplicate when in Matrix solver mode. Sorting would fix other issues that currently exist with matrix solver. Duplicate recipes make no sense in this mode so there should be no issue with removing them.

[mrvn]

Relevant to 03: It would be nice if items could be sorted (as long as there are no loops). If new items are inserter before the recipes for it's inputs then adding duplicates would be less likely too.

But don't prevent duplicates from being added. Sometimes you want them because the output of the recipe is used for different things and you want to see the correct ratios for each use.

I was thinking of only doing the sort / deduplicate when in Matrix solver mode. Sorting would fix other issues that currently exist with matrix solver. Duplicate recipes make no sense in this mode so there should be no issue with removing them.

How would that work? You use Matrix mode when you have a loop so there is no order of items where every output is after all the recipes that have it as input. You have to cut the loop somewhere and as user I would be annoyed if the code puts a different recipe at the top than I picked.

Shouldn't matrix mode be immune to the order of items? Duplicates I do get as being bad but the order of rows and columns in the matrix should be
irrelevant. (unless there are multiple solutions then the order could decide which solution becomes the result)

[KiwiHawk]

How would that work? You use Matrix mode when you have a loop so there is no order of items where every output is after all the recipes that have it as input. You have to cut the loop somewhere and as user I would be annoyed if the code puts a different recipe at the top than I picked.

Shouldn't matrix mode be immune to the order of items? Duplicates I do get as being bad but the order of rows and columns in the matrix should be
irrelevant. (unless there are multiple solutions then the order could decide which solution becomes the result)

Reorder wouldn't touch loops.

[mrvn]

But what would be the point of it for matrix mode?

Normally the order is important because an input for a recipe is only provided by another later entry. So if things are out of order then intermediates don't get build. But matrix mode just builds intermediates in whatever order they are, it's why it can work out loops. I would say matrix mode is the one mode where you don't need it.

[KiwiHawk]

But what would be the point of it for matrix mode?

Normally the order is important because an input for a recipe is only provided by another later entry. So if things are out of order then intermediates don't get build. But matrix mode just builds intermediates in whatever order they are, it's why it can work out loops. I would say matrix mode is the one mode where you don't need it.

Normally after enabling matrix solver, you can switch back to Compute by element and everything will stay as it was. Matrix solver will have set the percentages for various recipes, as required. However if a product is produced before it is consumed, it's not possible to set the percentage as there is no demand so the percentage would be infinity.

[mrvn]

But what would be the point of it for matrix mode?

Normally the order is important because an input for a recipe is only provided by another later entry. So if things are out of order then intermediates don't get build. But matrix mode just builds intermediates in whatever order they are, it's why it can work out loops. I would say matrix mode is the one mode where you don't need it.

Normally after enabling matrix solver, you can switch back to Compute by element and everything will stay as it was. Matrix solver will have set the percentages for various recipes, as required. However if a product is produced before it is consumed, it's not possible to set the percentage as there is no demand so the percentage would be infinity.

I think that just reinforces my argument. You want the items sorted when you switch matrix off.

Actually I think many times the percentage thing is the wrong way to deal with this and matrix mode is overkill or simply doesn't work. It has many quirks. What I normally want is to limit a recipe by inputs taken from the outputs above it instead of forcing recipes below it to produce stuff. Often I just want to close a loop and recycle waste products. E.g. produce as much distiller water from available H2 and O2 as you can. Then distill some more the traditional way.

You know how you can set a "main product" or an "exclude product"? Why can't I flag inputs as "available only"?

[KiwiHawk]

You kind of can. To do this, you have to split it up into multiple blocks though. Each block can be set to calculate by input or by output. I've got plans to (try) change it so individual lines can link by input/output.

Something like the Offshore pump pseudo recipe should obviously always calculate by output. Void recipes (like flare stack recipes) should always calculate by input.

I'm not sure how matrix solver would / should handle this though.

[KiwiHawk]

I've thought that perhaps matrix solver should operate just once, when you click the button. Rather than being a mode. Clicking matrix solve would reorder (if required), deduplicate, and set percentages.

[mrvn]

You kind of can. To do this, you have to split it up into multiple blocks though. Each block can be set to calculate by input or by output. I've got plans to (try) change it so individual lines can link by input/output.

That is close but not the same if there are multiple inputs. For example I'm might want to create O2 from air but not H2 from water to make distilled water. So H2 would be set as "available". Later recipes can then add O2 and distilled water as needed.