We support Ukraine

[gGeorg]

This NGO is perfect example how global west works. Check their supporters:
https://rsf.org/en/our-supporters
Lots of cporpo-press and MSM TV corpo's and
National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is a CIA branch. Tadaaaaa

i can't explain the difference between one country and all the others

of course you cant. It is called propaganda. You have to accept it and repeat as expected.

[mmmPI]

This NGO is perfect example how global west works. Check their supporters:
https://rsf.org/en/our-supporters
Lots of cporpo-press and MSM TV corpo's and
National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is a CIA branch. Tadaaaaa

i can't explain the difference between one country and all the others

of course you cant. It is called propaganda. You have to accept it and repeat as expected.

No i meant when you look at France and Germany for example there are a lot of discrepancies for freedom of press. You have countries that do not officially alllow free press and explain it with their own word, they logically do not rank high in the ranking. There are then country that pretend they allow free press but the factual evidence shows otherwise. Then you could have countries that really have free press and there plenty of evidence, but one opinion is not a majority and one feel repressed. There are factual reported number of person actually missing. and countries where no-one send journalist like north korea. If you do not realize the nuances then it makes it hard to drive toward better or enjoy what you already have.

[FuryoftheStars]

Now my personal opinion :
This thread is totally worthless, just a bunch of people who'd rather die than change their minds about who's right, while people are dying without having asked for it. Great success. If you all have so much time on your hands, why not stop wasting it, and doing something useful ?

Yup, I've allowed myself to get sucked too far into a discussion with paid bots and/or people with nothing better to do and I've wasted far too much of what little personal time I have. In either case, there is no "winning" such a discussion. Even if not bots, it's become apparent to me that the philosophical beliefs of some are such that there is no reasoning to be had.

There is no way someone can have the absolute knowledge of what's true, what's false, what's propaganda.

And this is a very good point on why neither side can truly win the debate, especially on the internet.

[Djmixxx]

how does the free press make money to pay employees?

[mmmPI]

how does the free press make money to pay employees?

There are many different business model, some are owned inside a larger conglomerate and is just lobby cabinet, some are financed with advertising and therefore have biaised toward their partners, some are financed by subscription where people pay a monthly fee to receive a newspaper or access the website some are open to donation and there are different level of transparency on who are donators and administration of the structure, and there also some state subsitize press or even sometimes publicly owned state press that can exist amongst other titles of press available.

Edit: forgot the oldschool newspaper people can buy like magazines in kiosk or shop. That was an important part of the business model back then before internet, and explain the concept of "headlines" which where written in very big letters and controversial to drive sales up from people walking down the street and seeing the headlines only, click bait before it existed !

And some of the free press is made by volunteer, or community that doesn't get paid for it. The business model of the individual journalist is different wether you write article takes pictures, do documentary movie, give your opinion on TV set and so on.

[tuhe]

Djmixx: This is not a war between Russia and Ukraine. This is a US-China war.
also DJmixxx a bit earlier: I will surprise you, there is no war in Ukraine.

So... there is no war between Russia and Ukraine, but there is a war between China and the US

[tuhe]

I could swear I had not seen the phrase "global west" before this week where I have seen it several times on 3 different forums.

[snow-factory]

how does the free press make money to pay employees?

One model is to sell the news. Like NY Times, Economist globally or Denik N in CZ and SK. Not everyone but sufficiently many people are willing to pay for objective well-researched news.

[enterisys]

One model is to sell the news. Like NY Times, Economist globally or Denik N in CZ and SK. Not everyone but sufficiently many people are willing to pay for objective well-researched news.

NY Times, Economist? The same sites that give access after paid subscription???

[mmmPI]

I could swear I had not seen the phrase "global west" before this week where I have seen it several times on 3 different forums.

Maybe it comes from translation, i see that one occurence of the terms come from someone i had already exchanged with several month ago on this forum about the game which makes me think it's not a bot : gGeorg made cool nuclear power plant and self-disabling laser turret wall and published them long ago on the forum

For other person it's quite easy to know if they are bots/specialized account, because you could click on the profile of someone once you are logged in, and spy on what they have said, the whole historic is public. It's easy to see if the person is a factorio player that published messaged or not. For accounts with no other message than some related to this particular thread maybe it was just a silent factorio player that suddenly got talkative, as in Ukraine, people are dying, fleeing their home, missing water and electricity, sleeping in basement, fearing for their lives and those of the people they love .

[enterisys]

More like Fake-factory

[snow-factory]

More like Fake-factory

Please let me personally know which of the information I posted here you consider fake. I have bought factorio in 2016, but never had any urge to post anything here on the forum, until I have seen the devs harassed for their courage to speak up.

[tuhe]

Maybe it comes from translation, i see that one occurence of the terms come from someone i had already exchanged with several month ago on this forum about the game which makes me think it's not a bot : gGeorg made cool nuclear power plant and self-disabling laser turret wall and published them long ago on the forum

I did not mean that the gGeorg or anyone else using the phrase was a bot, it was more a remark on this clearly being a phrase that is pushed from (I guess) non-western media.

Something that is a little funny is that from time to time, I lurk on a forum I dropped around 2016 when the main moderator fried his brain on Trump and banned everyone too far to the left of Hitler. It is sort of interesting to see how they are all very opposed to Russia for nationalistic reasons and muse about WW3, but at the same time they propagate every piece of Russian propaganda (The Fauci-labs in Ukraine, that Ukraine is building a dirty bomb, that the press is no freer in the west than in Russia because of something-something Justin Trudeau, that banning Russia is an example of cancel-culture and therefore bad, etc.)

[mmmPI]

That's a good depiction of what marketing applied to politics calls "talking points" it's sort of a motto / tag line / slogan. In the shaping of public opinions also called public relation there's a job or a role one refers to as "spin doctor" part of the job is coining terms to serve a narrative which you then try to push to gain political influence, because one person could start to defend the story and people vote for that person because they also believe the story.

It telescope with the official stance of a country like the USA but not only, anywhere when there are different political party that have different views and narrative to explain which action they will take and why.

The coinage of term doesn't have to exist with malicious intent, sometimes it's "intellectual" that will write a book and people will start agreeing with the idea/analysis and reuse the terms, sometimes it's at university of social science sometimes the military school, sometimes it's just a very vague and alarmist theory deemed "conspiracy" where there is no factual evidence which makes it nothing more than just a (nice) story/propaganda/ mis-informed point of view, sometimes just a claim like the "flat earth" where there actually exist factual evidence to proove things wrong and it's only mis-informed or voluntarily obscurantist.

Those can be used to deny factual evidence because it allow to coordinate alternate narrative that would be aligned between different sources of propagation. For example a brand will require all commercial accross all media to have the same message about the product. Same for a polical group will brief members to have the same stand/position on different subject. And they are briefed to answer some question with those prepared formula to make sure they do not improvise some things that would be incoherent.

[Djmixxx]

Daily news from Russian propaganda, for education purposes.

Results of voting against the glorification of Nazism in 2019 at the UN

[Djmixxx]

Map of countries that supported economic sanctions against Russia (last update)

I tried for a long time to insert the right maps in the right topics

[Djmixxx]

More like Fake-factory

I am start playing since 0.12 I think (I don’t remember exactly, but there was two types of rails, straight and rounded and no smart signals.). All information found on wiki or YouTube , so no registration on forum.

[Vintors]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf_7L4L3m_o?t=500
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L_9-GS7ZCM?t=90
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGO2OfNjdA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qn_NjBdVhI

[mmmPI]

Daily news from Russian propaganda, for education purposes.

Results of voting against the glorification of Nazism in 2019 at the UN

Russia has proposed a similar resolution since at least 2015, and the U.S. has voted against it every time.
Last year, U.S. envoy to the UN argued that a ban on glorifying Nazism would clash with the First Amendment protection of free speech in the U.S. Constitution. The U.S. has also accused Moscow of using the resolution to push “disinformation narratives” about neo-Nazism in the Baltic states and Ukraine.
The resolution demands the UN member countries to pass legislation to “eliminate all forms of racial discrimination” and condemn all attempts to glorify Nazism, xenophobia or neo-Nazism. It also demands the countries to condemn all attempts to revise the history of the Second World War.
The countries which abstained from voting cited possible limitations on freedom of speech, assembly and association. However, activist groups [AND RUSSIAN TROLL] allege that the EU’s reluctance to vote in favor of the resolution indicates the rising influence of right-wing politics there. Several European countries have right-wing governments or strong right-wing opposition sympathetic to neo-Nazi groups.
The U.S. has alleged that the resolution is a result of Russian attempts to paint the opposition to its interventions in East and Central European countries as pro-Nazi groupings.
Ukraine’s ministry of foreign affairs also alleged a pro-Russian bias in the resolution as the reason for its vote against the resolution.
However, Russia sees the abstentions and the votes against the resolution as assertion of right-wing pro-Nazi forces in these countries.

(if you find the source article you can read that all of it is older than the invasion, why publish this now if not to try and make Ukraine look bad at the same time where they are being invaded ?)

People that dont understand free speech sometimes don't realise what it means being allowed to say stupid thing in public so that people could proove it wrong. Like apology of war crime. If the law passed, maybe Putin would have been censored legally due to its intrepretation of WWII not being the same as what is Japan or China or USA.

Nazism ought to be condamned no doubt about it. But not sure Putin's Russia is the best candidate to explain what is the correct version of WWII that shouldn't be contradicted.

Also the vote passed, so i do not understand why you are posting it now ? It seem like you don't explictly mention any relation to the current conflict just like trying to be disrespectful and mis-informative.

Map of countries that supported economic sanctions against Russia (last update)

I tried for a long time to insert the right maps in the right topics

MAP IS NOT ACCURATE, for example Norway is not shown as sanctionning Russia but
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ealth-fund

Also one got to consider that only rich and not food-dependant country can economically afford to sanction Russia.

Your maps are OLD and INACURATE compared to these look :

feb_letter.png (387.38 KiB) Viewed 3012 times

That was before the official vote.

2_04_144.png (164.54 KiB) Viewed 3012 times

This is after the official vote where four countries joined Russia in voting against the resolution — Belarus, North Korea, Eritrea and Syria.

[jodokus31]

Very interesting background:

YaleUniversity
Vladimir Pozner: How the United States Created Vladimir Putin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X7Ng75e5gQ