Friday Facts #367 - Expansion news

[Shuisman]

I think 30$ is fine. I come from the Red Alert 2 + Red alert 2: Yuri's Revenge or Generals + Generals:Zero Hour time. We would now call that a DLC/expansion. But in those time it was branded as a new game. And it was the same price as the base game. I'm anyhow fine with it. 100s of hours for 30euro/dollar, there is hardly any other entertainment that is that cheap!

[jodokus31]

If I understand correctly, that's not the case, that the 1.2 base engine (without expansion) is capable of everything the expansion will use. There are 2 versions, one with expansion code and one without. The expansion engine contains everything from base engine.

On the other hand 1.2 base engine will contain some fixes and QoL stuff

Thats wrong. They literally said in the FFF that there is only one version of the game and the expansion mod works like a flag which enables expansion content.

This lead us to a different plan. We will release the 1.2 update to the base game, and the expansion will be based on the same version, and will also contain the expansion mod. The executables will be slightly different, so you couldn't just install the expansion mod without having the expansion executable, but other than that, the code will be identical.

To be clear, the expansion will not be 'just' a mod, the game engine itself will have some significant improvements and technical backing to make many of the new gameplay features possible. These engine capabilities will be available with the expansion build/executable, and we will add a mod info flag like 'uses_expansion_features', that will mean the mod will only try to load in the expansion (and this will also be used for other things, such as mod portal filtering).

Esp.
"The executables will be slightly different"
"These engine capabilities will be available with the expansion build/executable"

Whatever that implies exactly...

BTW: Why even so harsh ...

[PaszaVonPomiot]

30$ is fine, 40$ is fine, 50$ is fine
I'd rather pay double for one of its kind quality game and play it for hundreds of hours than pay half the price for average game that I will play for couple of hours

[ptx0]

Not mentioning the high price (and I'm among many that paid 15$ or less for main game over 7 years ago), you're taking successful early access game that had a ton of community contributions and try to turn it into something developed completely behind the closed doors. And only motivation for that (as far as I remember previous FFF) is to not have modders spoil your expansion with their take on it. That's either very brave or...well, the other thing.

the carrot dangling is actually making me lose interest in it, haha. as they already indicated the majority of game engine work was done long ago and we only paid $30 for it i don't see why a couple years of work is $30 as well, unless inflation really has gotten that bad.

and considering it used to be less than $30 (as you mention) i don't know why they wouldn't release a more reasonable $10-$15 DLC and then increase its cost as it becomes as popular as they believe it is.

as it stands i'll just 'wait and see' about buying it. will watch streamers play it before i decide to support it because, it does feel really weird how secretive they are. the binary split and allowing the DLC mod features to only be done if you pay them $30 for the expansion binary also confirms the perception that it's being done to protect their expansion from modders doing a "free reimplementation".

[ptx0]

As I understand it, 1.2 will be a free update to the base game, including all the engine upgrades and QoL stuff

there's two binaries and an info.json flag use_expansion_features that will allow a mod to use additional scripting features that will not be available in the base 1.2 game.

The expansion then is a big mod you have to spend money on, where the term is more like a technical description and I feel this is where people who think it's overpriced get confused.

or, not confused, but just a different person with different priorities.

Alot of work that went into the expansion is free for people who don't buy it.
1.2 puts everyone on the same level in terms of code and I'm sure modders will use their new possibilities without making expansion mandatory.

see above, for how this is not the case. you can't join non-expansion servers if you have the expansion enabled.

As for the expansion I'm sure it will be worth it.
Wube knows their mod portal, they even hired one that made a big ass overhaul that keeps you playing for way longer than the base game.

i suspect more people have given up on that mod than however many have finished it. i've got lots of play time and usually end up dropping out by the 2nd space science because it's just needless complexity. to the point of being pure grind.

Of my 3500ish hours I've spent about 4/5 in AB+PY. A huge expansion mod will let the price/hour drop even more and we'll soon need scientific notation for it.

4 to 5 hours in AB+PY? or 400-500 hours?

those mods were free, despite years of effort put in by dedicated teams of volunteers. they continue to put in work for free.. and plan to continue doing so.

and yet, they don't really appeal to the wider audience. there's a few dedicated fans of these mods (and i am one) but my best friend can't cope with them because he gets overwhelmed.

so, personally, i'm curious where they're going with the "new content that feels like a 2nd game". maybe it'll be like Space Exploration, but without all the tedious extra shit that's only used once. in other words, new combat situations and new logistics mechanisms.

[Dragony]

I am a marketing expert in the industry and I recommend the following:

1. Put up pre-order possibilities not only if you want to maximize your revenue, but also only if you can hold your promises.

2. Keep your promises to a minimum, but feed your customer base with fresh stuff now and then. It was not the best strategy to say nothing for so long.

3. Offer a $99 special-edition for your hardcore fan base. Wube is a company known for it's extraordinary devs. Some autogram card signed by the dev team will probably boost the sales.

4. Cope with the fact that you can't make everyone happy. Try to maximize the average happiness of your userbase and you are good.

TLDR: Give your fan base what they want. Never break promises.

And to those who want to pay less than $30: It is like a nature's law that there will be a sale one day or another. If you only want to spend $20, then you can do it. Just wait for a special offer.

[RMJ]

30 bucks?. I'm pretty sure you made a typo. You meant to say 60 bucks.
If this has anywhere near the content and replayability of the base game. Don't sell yourself short. Or at least offer a supporter / collectors edition? . I would honestly love a figure or something physical from the world of factorio. And it could be a nice way to support you guys for the more hardcore fans.

[invisus]

4 to 5 hours in AB+PY? or 400-500 hours?

I stumbled over this for a minute too, until satisfying myself that this was meant as four fifths or 80%... but that's still a guess.

[Drury]

And to those who want to pay less than $30: It is like a nature's law that there will be a sale one day or another. If you only want to spend $20, then you can do it. Just wait for a special offer.

Well then this game breaks natural laws because it's never had a sale in the 9 years it's been available for purchase, the devs have stated multiple times there will never be a sale, and the community has accepted that there never will be a sale. I honestly think at this point people would consider it a betrayal if there was a sale

1. Put up pre-order possibilities not only if you want to maximize your revenue, but also only if you can hold your promises.

I don't think maximizing revenue is a priority for them at this point but I could be wrong. Either way, the latter is incredibly salient and I agree wholeheartedly! If you're 100% certain that you can serve 100% of your customer base to their satisfaction, there is no reason not to have a pre-order up. Problem is that this only happens when selling things like tractors, not videogames. When you're releasing a videogame, you're aiming to surprise the audience a little, and you're bound to surprise a chunk of them in a negative way. It's inevitable. And if you put up a preorder, you're effectively taking advantage of their trust in you to take their money for yourself. And even if 100% of the audience somehow ends up happy with the purchase, that's still being unfair to them for no reason.

And hey, if any of y'all want to preorder the game, you can always just put the money under the mattress for the time being and consider it expansion money. There's literally 0 downsides and the end result is the same - you get the expansion as soon as it comes out either way. Except this way nobody can say they've been tricked when they expected the expansion to be the same as the base game when it wasn't. Wube gets to save face, you get to save money. Win-win for everyone.

[KillerXDLZ]

Generally the fact that the team size has increased, and there are a lot of things in the engine that we already solved, should hopefully imply that the expansion takes way less time than the base game.

Factorio, took 7 years to be made (crowdfunding campaign in 2013 and 1.0 release in 2020). Will it take 5-3 years to make this expansion?

Also how frequently should we expect to get information about the expansion?

[3vaLgaming]

These news are awesome! so what about multithreading?

[GrumpyJoe]

Of my 3500ish hours I've spent about 4/5 in AB+PY. A huge expansion mod will let the price/hour drop even more and we'll soon need scientific notation for it.

4 to 5 hours in AB+PY? or 400-500 hours?

4 out of 5, or 80%

My first thought was "30€? With a base game price exactly that, I think 20-25€ would just sound more reasonable, maybe for people who haven't bought the base game yet even better?"

For me, who has spent only 20€ way back, it's even a 50% increase!

But, we all know it's worth it.

Anyway, i find the technical details more interesting and I wouldn't have brought my 2c up, if noone said anything about the price proposal. IMHO If you are a gamer and can't afford a mid priced game, you should only play weekly freebies from epic store.

[jodokus31]

so, personally, i'm curious where they're going with the "new content that feels like a 2nd game". maybe it'll be like Space Exploration, but without all the tedious extra shit that's only used once. in other words, new combat situations and new logistics mechanisms.

Yeah, that will be the question.
Just making more and more complex recipes and some fancy graphics won't cut it.
There should be new mechanics, new challenges, new enemies? new scope? a better story? a campaign? different playstyles f.e. eco-playstyle? peace with aliens? intelligent aliens? different planets? mountains? caves? some sort of 3D? ...
Something, what couldn't be done with just modding yet.

Honestly, I think it might be tough for the existing userbase, to get used to something new. At least, the current base game will remain, for those who won't adapt.

[mmmPI]

Well then this game breaks natural laws because it's never had a sale in the 9 years it's been available for purchase, the devs have stated multiple times there will never be a sale, and the community has accepted that there never will be a sale. I honestly think at this point people would consider it a betrayal if there was a sale

It is true that Wube is a bit special in the marketing department too they do it their own (good) way imo. The no-sale policy is known to me but maybe a bundle who is permanently at a certain price is considered different than a sale.

the natural laws of marketing are sort of what you shouldn't do anyway if you have ethic It's too bad the price had had so much focus.

The little droplets of water under the clawy jellyfish brain indicate water biters ! Maybe boats ? Maybe seaworld ? Why not more speculation from the community ?

[Eiermann]

These news are awesome! so what about multithreading?

the game is already multithreaded, also this thread might be interesting for you: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39893

[Mooncat]

I wish we will be able to build a second or even higher layer of transport belts and pipes so we can have more interesting layouts like Satisfactory and Dyson Sphere Program. I'm trying to make a grid, botless megabase (partially because of Robot Attrition) but building belts in limited space is dull because of the current limitation.

Anyway, I sincerely hope the expansion can attract players from those similar games and make Factorio great again.

[PhasmaNL]

I can't really imagine how you could add so much to the game as you're describing. But I'm excited and definitely looking forward to it!

€30 sounds fine. Factorio base game price is a bargain.

But no preorder for me. The last developer I completely trusted (CDPR), disappointed after all. Even with the best of intentions, a project can still go of the rails.

[CrushedIce]

This is one of the rare occasions where I would buy something blindly!
As a Mining Drill Operator with more than a thousand hours on the clock, the price is perfectly fine for me

[Tertius]

But no preorder for me.

Preorder is from the ancient days where physical Diskettes/CDs/DVDs were shipped, so you got your CD reserved and shipped at release day to get it at the earliest possible time.

Today, at general availability day, you go to the shop website, do the purchase, download, and play. That's how I will deal with the expansion. The price is a steal given the entertainment quality of the game. I bet the expansion will contain some surprise and concepts not yet present in the game, so I might actually like it or not, but that all adds to the entertainment value.

[brunzenstein]

I would even find 99.- € a fair price for the pleasure the game has already provided to so many.