Auto-Request

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by BlueTemplar »

The problem is that you might be on the move.

You *can* play like this, but it's what a specific achievement is about : Lazy Bastard.
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by shopt »

Yes in theory you can do one-shot requests with a requester chest, however:
* What Blue Templar said. I have to stand still and wait for the bots to fill the chest, or I have to remember to come back later.
* Requester chests come significantly later in the tech tree than personal logistics requests.

Also, a blueprint doesn't necessarily capture your needs. If you are extending your defenses or your rails, then the blueprints are generally meant to tile and not be self contained.

I get that "one-shot" requests are a bit of a thread hijack, but it gives part of what this request asks for, is far easier to implement, and is useful beyond just supporting hand crafting.

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by ssilk »

shopt wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:33 am
* What Blue Templar said. I have to stand still and wait for the bots to fill the chest, or I have to remember to come back later.
Why? You can do so many other things in the meantime. I mean, that’s the essence of this game: doing things so, that they can be automated.
* Requester chests come significantly later in the tech tree than personal logistics requests.
Much better argument. But I can argue against that, this is a relatively short time, compared to the rest.

And I can argue: Use a mod to make one-time requests. Because - as said - calculating how much you really need in this exact moment is complicated.

For example I want to build 500 green circuits, I have in my pocket 200 iron plates and 200 copper plates. In some random chests I’ve left in sum 250 copper wires, 200 copper and 1000 iron plates. But the chests are between 10 and 5000 tiles away. The bots are also randomly spread in their roboports. What is the best way to order the copper wires to achieve optimal production speed?
Also, a blueprint doesn't necessarily capture your needs. If you are extending your defenses or your rails, then the blueprints are generally meant to tile and not be self contained.

I get that "one-shot" requests are a bit of a thread hijack, but it gives part of what this request asks for, is far easier to implement, and is useful beyond just supporting hand crafting.
Maybe I’m just thinking too complicated. Or I cannot imagine the usefulness. It would not have been the first time. So convince me! Cause as this currently stands, I think it is has a complex implementation, limited usage cases and it compromises the core of the game.
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by shopt »

So I think you may be talking about auto-dependencies for hand-crafting. I counter-suggested just implementing manual, one-off logistics requests that reset once they are filled as a much easier to implement alternative, that has more use cases, and solves one of the issues that the people who want to hand craft have with the current system. I personally have no desire for features just to support end game hand crafting.

Regarding one-off, manual logistics requests, yes, I can go and do other things while I wait for a requester chest to fill, but then I have to come back to check on it and collect it as opposed to just making sure I stay in the logistics network.

As for a mod, sure it would be fine as a mod, I don't know if one already exists.

The scenario: I want to extend/push my defensive wall. I have a blueprint for 30 tiles at a time that I keep tiling as far as I need, and personal roboports. I do not have fixed roboport coverage of the target area. I do a rough calculation and work out I need 1000 wall pieces, 150 turrets, and 80 power poles for this. My base already assembles these items using machines. I don't regularly keep that many walls and turrets in my logistics requests or inventory. I put in a one-off request for the 1000 walls and 150 turrets (numbers I couldn't get just from a blueprint, cause I need multiples of the blueprint). While they are being delivered I continue doing stuff around my base, but don't leave the logistics network. Once they are filled, I happen to be at the other end of my base, and the logistics requests reset back to their old levels. I go to the area, and build the extension with my personal roboports. When I come back to the base, the bots don't keep delivering me 1000 walls because I forgot to set my request back to the old levels.

As you have pointed out, I could have dropped a requester chest and put the requests there, assuming I have the tech. I get busy doing stuff around my base but now I'm over the other end of it. I have to come back to collect the items and deconstruct the chest before setting out to build my wall.

Other workarounds are remembering to reset all the logistics requests I changed, a builder train, or a buildertron.

So yes there are alternatives to one-off requests, but they require remembering and more manual clicking, or more infrastructure and tech, and/or force you to come back to the location where you first made the request. I guess I can sort of buy that what I want to do should be annoying and I should have to wait for and set up building trains or buildertrons. But to me, getting the bots to deliver me a heap of stuff that's in my network just once, so I can go out somewhere to lay down some blueprints which get built by my personal bots seems well within what mid-late game factorio is about.

As for auto-determining requests from a hand craft click but looking at what your inventory lacks, yeah I'm with you on that. Seems like trying to turn the game into something other than Factorio.

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by FuryoftheStars »

shopt wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:51 am
So I think you may be talking about auto-dependencies for hand-crafting. I counter-suggested just implementing manual, one-off logistics requests that reset once they are filled as a much easier to implement alternative, that has more use cases, and solves one of the issues that the people who want to hand craft have with the current system. I personally have no desire for features just to support end game hand crafting.

[…]

As for auto-determining requests from a hand craft click but looking at what your inventory lacks, yeah I'm with you on that. Seems like trying to turn the game into something other than Factorio.
I almost wonder if this suggestion should have its own thread? The original concept in this thread was all auto (for handcrafting). Your counter suggestion still requires manual requesting, though has auto resetting.

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by nuhll »

ssilk wrote:
Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:04 am

There are mods, that can do such requests for blueprints. Because it’s easy to calculate. It’s quite more difficult to calculate such a request for items. And again it shouldn’t, because where is the problem to build an assembly, a blue chest and feed it with an inserter!?
Im no programer but i cant think why that should be any difficult in a game where 092742349203742134230742374908234 mrd items a second are crunched.
to answer:
bc not all ppl are playin vanilla and there are quite a few mods with quite a few items already, and factorio will be a "long term supported game" so this is not the end.

btw.
the one click (maybe right click+scroll wheel would be cool to set the count) for one time deliverys seems really nice and a good compromise on my end, because the main idea was that requesting the stuff "is too much work" xD (finding the item in the delivery screen, setting it to the thing you want, you buidl them, forget to set it back to 0 (or delete), need to send back... "

btw, thats how it looks today, and im not even in late late game, what will be in 1 or 2 years?

there has to be some improvement.
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by ssilk »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:03 pm

I almost wonder if this suggestion should have its own thread? The original concept in this thread was all auto (for handcrafting). Your counter suggestion still requires manual requesting, though has auto resetting.
Indeed. I tried to split this thread, but it is too twisted.

Instead I would recommend to discuss one-time-requests here
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20232 Feature request: Allow one-time orders from logistic network
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by FuryoftheStars »

nuhll wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:30 pm
btw, thats how it looks today, and im not even in late late game, what will be in 1 or 2 years?

there has to be some improvement.
1.jpg
Well, yeah, if you’re going to be insistent on still handcrafting a lot of things, yes, of course it’s going to be a mess. But what if you set up the factory to produce the end products and then only ordered these via logistics?

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by nuhll »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:45 am
nuhll wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:30 pm
btw, thats how it looks today, and im not even in late late game, what will be in 1 or 2 years?

there has to be some improvement.
1.jpg
Well, yeah, if you’re going to be insistent on still handcrafting a lot of things, yes, of course it’s going to be a mess. But what if you set up the factory to produce the end products and then only ordered these via logistics?
?

I dont want to handcraft, in the current situation its just much easier then requesting it, that was the whole point. Look at the mess of logistic requests, and im not even half way thru space exploration

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by FuryoftheStars »

nuhll wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:35 pm
in the current situation its just much easier then requesting it
I’m not sure I follow. How is putting in logistic requests for the ingredients (and potentially sub-ingredients) for an item easier than simply requesting that item? Especially if it’s something you need a lot of or are constantly requesting, I would think that setting up a part of your factory to make them for you and then simply request that would be better.

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by nuhll »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:18 am
nuhll wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:35 pm
in the current situation its just much easier then requesting it
I’m not sure I follow. How is putting in logistic requests for the ingredients (and potentially sub-ingredients) for an item easier than simply requesting that item? Especially if it’s something you need a lot of or are constantly requesting, I would think that setting up a part of your factory to make them for you and then simply request that would be better.
the request was to make it automatic? not that i would manually add each ingredient wtf?

and what is simple by the current requesting system? you play the game, right? :roll:
Last edited by nuhll on Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by FuryoftheStars »

nuhll wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:53 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:18 am
nuhll wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:35 pm
in the current situation its just much easier then requesting it
I’m not sure I follow. How is putting in logistic requests for the ingredients (and potentially sub-ingredients) for an item easier than simply requesting that item? Especially if it’s something you need a lot of or are constantly requesting, I would think that setting up a part of your factory to make them for you and then simply request that would be better.
the request was to make it automatic? not that i would manually add each ingredient wtf?

and what is simple by the current requesting system? you play the game, right? :roll:
I don't care manual vs automatic. My question is: how is requesting all of the ingredients and/or sub-ingredients to handcraft a final product item easier than requesting that final product item directly from your factory?

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by ssilk »

I see where this leads to and as moderator I take more and more into account to move this to “won’t I implement”. Convince me. :)
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by nuhll »

FuryoftheStars wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:21 am
nuhll wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 11:53 pm
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:18 am
nuhll wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:35 pm
in the current situation its just much easier then requesting it
I’m not sure I follow. How is putting in logistic requests for the ingredients (and potentially sub-ingredients) for an item easier than simply requesting that item? Especially if it’s something you need a lot of or are constantly requesting, I would think that setting up a part of your factory to make them for you and then simply request that would be better.
the request was to make it automatic? not that i would manually add each ingredient wtf?

and what is simple by the current requesting system? you play the game, right? :roll:
I don't care manual vs automatic. My question is: how is requesting all of the ingredients and/or sub-ingredients to handcraft a final product item easier than requesting that final product item directly from your factory?
I cant understand why you dont understand what i want.

OFC! its easier if YOU HAVE that product it gets delivered. My suggestion is for items which ARE NOT in the network.

I also stated that the suggestion from another user is probably more likly to be implemented and i would be fine with that solution

look at the picture i posted above and tell me its EASY to request stuff WTF??????? I have to look for each item (how much requests i have now? 50?), its not getting highlighted in anyway, its just a mess, please tell me, do you play this game?

And just to clarify this, for vanilla this is relativly obsolete. So they might could add the functionallity which can a mod use.

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by ssilk »

nuhll wrote:
Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:42 am
OFC! its easier if YOU HAVE that product it gets delivered. My suggestion is for items which ARE NOT in the network.
That is very clear. But it means, that the item is not automated. And that’s the reason why we are sceptical. Because the core of Factorio is about automation. Not handcrafting. Not building everything yourself. Not bringing the items to the place they are needed. By supporting this kind of gameplay you break this game-core. :)
And just to clarify this, for vanilla this is relativly obsolete. So they might could add the functionallity which can a mod use.
It’s not difficult to implement this feature as mod. No need to have it in vanilla.
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by FuryoftheStars »

So much to unpack here that I'm not even going to bother with half of it. I'm not even going to take the time to separate out the post, so take your guess on what each piece goes to.
nuhll wrote:
Mon Feb 14, 2022 2:42 am
I cant understand why you dont understand what i want.

OFC! its easier if YOU HAVE that product it gets delivered. My suggestion is for items which ARE NOT in the network.

I also stated that the suggestion from another user is probably more likly to be implemented and i would be fine with that solution

look at the picture i posted above and tell me its EASY to request stuff WTF??????? I have to look for each item (how much requests i have now? 50?), its not getting highlighted in anyway, its just a mess, please tell me, do you play this game?

And just to clarify this, for vanilla this is relativly obsolete. So they might could add the functionallity which can a mod use.
If it's not in your network, then add it. I'd think that would be easier than manually requesting over and over and over for the ingredients and sub-ingredients for the final product.

I see in your picture many items that are only useful as ingredients for making something else, large quantities of things that should be buildable by your bot network or a builder train or similar can carry and provide for you for when you are outside of it, and many, many things that you've set to auto-trash all because apparently you do a lot of manual building vs letting your network handle it for you(?). And are all of them even needed at this point (yellow belts)?

Finally, if this doesn't need to be in the base game (as this is only an issue with mods), then why the request thread in a section for the base game? Should this not be a mod request, or a request to the auto-trash mod author to expand functionality to include this? If you want to request a modder to do this, go for it! I got no issues with that. But it seems like you're assuming it can't be done and requires something from the devs without first asking in the correct locations.

Frankly, I can get behind the idea of the temp requests for the base game, though I do not support auto-requesting ingredients and sub-ingredients recursively, and either way I believe that particular suggestion is fundamentally different enough from the original request of this thread that it should have it's own thread. Honestly, I think at this point wires are getting crossed because we've got two different requests in here!

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by nuhll »

sorry, i tried to explain, but maybe other ppl have more luck LOL.

So a mod can make it that you can "shortcut" request temporary stuff? :lol:

i can only imagine you guys never play with mods

and just for the record i have "every" important building automated, its about the game flow which is not working. requesting stuff is too complicated. the UI sucks

Maybe install some mods and try it yourself.

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Re: Auto-Request

Post by ssilk »

nuhll wrote:
Fri Mar 04, 2022 11:02 pm
and just for the record i have "every" important building automated, its about the game flow which is not working. requesting stuff is too complicated. the UI sucks
Well, “ui for requesting sucks”, that’s a completely different subject. And partly I nod with my head. But only partly. Again: completely different subject!

But with mods in my opinion it’s the modders turn to make the gameplay useful. And that depends also on how to automate things like personal roboport.

Otherwise people like you can always say: this game sucks, because when I play this mod the UX completely sucks. 8-) Go to the modder and ask him/her to add such a feature. :)
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by BlueTemplar »

ssilk wrote:
Sat Jan 22, 2022 5:59 am
I see where this leads to and as moderator I take more and more into account to move this to “won’t I implement”. Convince me. :)
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ssilk wrote:
Tue Feb 15, 2022 5:38 am
[...]
It’s not difficult to implement this feature as mod. No need to have it in vanilla.
Would the interface interaction required be really possible with a mod ?
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Re: Auto-Request

Post by Qon »

BlueTemplar wrote:
Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:59 pm
Would the interface interaction required be really possible with a mod ?
The interfaces already provided by the game are completely unmoddable, so the answer is no regardless of what the requested interaction is.
It is possible to mod in completely new and separate GUI, that are a bit worse but are otherwise clones of the vanilla interface but has the wanted behavior.
But making a clone of an already working GUI is a lot of work, is going to be a cheap knock-off clone, would be a worse experience because it is a separate menu etc. Modders would love to be able to add in new stuff and new interaction methods to the GUI and the game if that API option was there.

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