Performance problems when using the factorissimo mod

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Hornwitser
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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by Hornwitser »

The server doesn't wait for the client to keep up, so if the client is just a bit too slow then it'll fall behind the server. To avoid falling behind the client will sacrifice FPS to do more game updates, which typically is experienced as massive frequent FPS drops.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by Miras_Athran »

Hornwitser wrote:
Sat Jan 01, 2022 10:13 pm
The server doesn't wait for the client to keep up, so if the client is just a bit too slow then it'll fall behind the server. To avoid falling behind the client will sacrifice FPS to do more game updates, which typically is experienced as massive frequent FPS drops.
You see and that does not recognize the game Factorio.
It is due to the hardware and the code of the game, the developer cannot expect to buy a 5000 € PC these days. Above all, take a look around how expensive really good CPUs and graphics cards are alone if you have the 2 things you have already paid 2000 - 3000 €, the other is still missing.

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Nosferatu
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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by Nosferatu »

You have played this game more then 600 hours without mayor problems and keep complaining that the Devs didn't do a good job.
Don't you realise how ridiculous that is?

Back to the problem:
We are back too: Your cpu is the bottleneck and we have seen in your screenshot that most of the update time is spent in updateing electric network and factorissimo2.

Maybe you should provide a save game so that others can check if this is a bug in factorissimo2 or if you just built something so large that can't be supported any longer by the cpu

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by Miras_Athran »

I know that the mod factorissimo2 is the cause.
The factory buildings are a fine thing, but my colleague apparently had too many of them and although his base in my base could not see it, I felt the FPS break in over these factory buildings. He put all the factory activities into such houses so that the mod became quite a burden for clients. The modder coded improperly with lua.
When I demolished around 25 factory buildings from mod factorissimo2 at his place, the FPS and UPS were back to normal at 60 without changing the speed command, and although my view was as far away as possible, I could see more area. In my base there is not a single one of these color buildings and it runs smoothly despite a lot of conveyor belts etc ... I finally understand that code is also a cause, if it was written sloppily, problems arise accordingly. We still have a lot of other mods on it and so far there have been no FPS drops. Oh yes, it was only on as a host, but I still think that my CPU is not the only problem. If the network connection fluctuates a little, there can also be FPS drops. move my pawn. The mod factorissimo2 is usually well thought out, only average PCs bring the performance for such a mod. Strangely, there are many other mods on it and it works without a lot of stress. Even the bob mods where it is quite good and diverse, it works perfectly despite my average computer.
That is proof that is irrefutable.
As far as I am concerned, you can continue to complain about my CPU, my RAM and maybe my graphics card that it's because of that.
Wouldn't change the facts.
I thank the people who made me aware of the factorissimo2 mod in the first place.
Either it is also adapted for weaker PCs, or you can only play with such a mod with high-end computers.
I know a modder who said that you have to be careful when writing a mod in Factorio, if the PC starts to jerk because of such a mod. Is it because of the dirty code, for example. because it is carried out too often by grinding etc ...
I know I play Factorio for more than 600 hours, but not for long with such mods, without such mods you can have fun.
The stupid thing is first to figure out what it is.
I do not see why I am because of 1 mod that is improperly programmed, for example. 5000-6000 € to be paid.
I know that graphics cards are quite expensive like CPUs.
Don't earn so much money myself that I can afford it.
I think my PC is good enough at the moment; I bought it in individual parts in July 2018 and it also took months to retrofit the individual parts. First the basic ingredients. Then a little better graphics card, more RAM, etc ...
The sellers have really lost the reality of prices.
In order to be able to spend 3000 € on a graphics card, I have to save at least 8-10 months a year, so and I don't even have the CPU for it, I need about 2 months. I can get the mainboard together quickly, the price is quite good, etc ...
Imagine now that NOT EVERYONE is ready to play such mods and spend money. In case of doubt, he would rather do without and hope for improvement.

I noticed when I don't have to have the mod factorissimo2 with me on other servers and nobody can have an extremely large number of factory buildings, the game runs smoothly.
If I play the mod in single player mode, it does not lag, maybe if there were more such factory houses on the map, then even then the FPS would somehow go into the basement due to overload and any high-end computer would start to kneel.

I Upload now my 2 saves and all mods in folder.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by Miras_Athran »

here is upload
https://filehorst.de/folder.php?key=eITbnO8j
2 Spielergame Dark 03 have problem
FPS spikes as a client noticed extremely there. Even if you are the host the FPS are below 50. So it was with me. Can vary from PC to PC. But nothing in spite of you. If more of them are built, even the more powerful computer will hit its knees somewhere.

2 Spielergame Dark 04
In this game I demolished some of my teammates' factories and was able to notice significant FPS improvements.

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ptx0
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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by ptx0 »

just to say, you are one of the most annoying type of people on this forum, the ones who create their own problem and then insist that devs are at fault for it, while simultaneously ignoring all of the other forum members who are giving good advice. and you keep being miserable. get over yourself.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by Hornwitser »

I looked at the save and there's 120 factorissimo buildings in it. Factorissimo is not an efficient mod, every factory building creates a separate electric network which are somewhat computationally expensive. Each electric network takes up about 0.02ms of time just to exist, multiply by 120 gives about 2.4ms. This may be more or less depending on your hardware. You are also using belts to and from factorissimo buildings which are also computationally expensive because the mod will move each item individually between the inside and outside belts in Lua code. You might get a 10-20% speedup just by replacing the belts going into the factorissimo buildings with loaders that go to and from chests instead.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by Nosferatu »

Also took a look at it.
First: Those are a lot of mods - 135?
I was amazed that that big number alone doesn't make it crash somewhere.
I'm used to have ~10 mods active ;)

It looks a lot like Factorissimo2 and how it was used on this map is responsible for the problems.
The factorissimo2 Faq has a section called UPS - https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Factorissimo2/faq
I think those recomendations would help a lot. But most important as posted above - to many individual factorissimo buildings

PS: You don't need to upload your mod pack when uploading your save.
There is a button "Syncronise mods with save game" that simply fetches all mods from the modportal

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by Miras_Athran »

Nosferatu wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:34 pm
Also took a look at it.
First: Those are a lot of mods - 135?
I was amazed that that big number alone doesn't make it crash somewhere.
I'm used to have ~10 mods active ;)

It looks a lot like Factorissimo2 and how it was used on this map is responsible for the problems.
The factorissimo2 Faq has a section called UPS - https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Factorissimo2/faq
I think those recomendations would help a lot. But most important as posted above - to many individual factorissimo buildings

PS: You don't need to upload your mod pack when uploading your save.
There is a button "Syncronise mods with save game" that simply fetches all mods from the modportal
I also mentioned that Minecraft also had around 100 mods in it. If you patiently deal with it and report errors, you have a large, stable modpack.
At Factorio there were errors here and there with these mods and some problems were also fixed.
What just amazes me that no one reports what concerns the mod factorissimo2, for example, then I will be the first.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by ptx0 »

Miras_Athran wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:18 pm
I also mentioned that Minecraft also had around 100 mods in it. If you patiently deal with it and report errors, you have a large, stable modpack.
At Factorio there were errors here and there with these mods and some problems were also fixed.
What just amazes me that no one reports what concerns the mod factorissimo2, for example, then I will be the first.
the number of mods isn't the problem. it's the scripting that they do that is overwhelming to the garbage collector etc.

you're the only one complaining, i guess, because you're the only one who didn't read about it ahead of time to discover the various UPS problems with F2 and how to overcome/avoid them.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by Miras_Athran »

ptx0 wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:06 pm
Miras_Athran wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:18 pm
I also mentioned that Minecraft also had around 100 mods in it. If you patiently deal with it and report errors, you have a large, stable modpack.
At Factorio there were errors here and there with these mods and some problems were also fixed.
What just amazes me that no one reports what concerns the mod factorissimo2, for example, then I will be the first.
the number of mods isn't the problem. it's the scripting that they do that is overwhelming to the garbage collector etc.

you're the only one complaining, i guess, because you're the only one who didn't read about it ahead of time to discover the various UPS problems with F2 and how to overcome/avoid them.
What does my playing method have to do with the problem? Have noticed several times that you are the only one who complains so massively about me.
Do you do that with everyone if someone bothers something and posts it and just because nothing similar is already written somewhere?
It is also clear to me that it is not the mass of the mods that is always decisive.
If you would have read on page 1 that I also suspected the mod because of the high values ​​in debug mode.
At that time I also had to use debug mode for the first time, otherwise there have never been such lag spikes.
Well, you get away with reading only half of it and let the rest of it, which is just as important, blow in the wind.
You are probably the only one who hasn't even downloaded the game saves and looked at the situation.
1. factorissimo2 is responsible for the fact that the FPS drops develop over time.
2. I didn't build the factory buildings en masse, but my playmate.
3. There is not a single one in my base.
Imagine there are 10 players with this mod. Then you would notice how fast the FPS jump backwards.
Of course the idea is well thought out, but unfortunately it is sloppily scripted. At some point every pc would go to their knees, one sooner and the other later.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by ptx0 »

Miras_Athran wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:24 am
What does my playing method have to do with the problem?
[...]
1. factorissimo2 is responsible for the fact that the FPS drops develop over time.
[...]
Of course the idea is well thought out, but unfortunately it is sloppily scripted. At some point every pc would go to their knees, one sooner and the other later.
yeah it's your play style. i clipped your own words down to the relevant bits.

blame your friend, do whatever you need to do to absolve yourself of responsibility.

i am being honest with you. i complain massively when someone is dumb enough not to listen. you're sitting here calling the game poorly written, acting like there's some major problem with the code, when the problem is you.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by Miras_Athran »

ptx0 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 5:15 pm
Miras_Athran wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:24 am
What does my playing method have to do with the problem?
[...]
1. factorissimo2 is responsible for the fact that the FPS drops develop over time.
[...]
Of course the idea is well thought out, but unfortunately it is sloppily scripted. At some point every pc would go to their knees, one sooner and the other later.
yeah it's your play style. i clipped your own words down to the relevant bits.

blame your friend, do whatever you need to do to absolve yourself of responsibility.

i am being honest with you. i complain massively when someone is dumb enough not to listen. you're sitting here calling the game poorly written, acting like there's some major problem with the code, when the problem is you.
Oh yes? Then download the saves and prove to me that you are right.
The other 2 did it and it is clearly proven that it is the one mod.

Sure, if you do not yet know exactly the causes then it is clear that you first try to enumerate everything that could be the cause. I know my PC better than you, so I always exclude the hardware problem.
With the Mod Factorissimo2 it is the problem with the factory buildings. As soon as too many are activated, that's it.
My PC can only hold up to a certain limit. Nevertheless, I can play any other game without any problems so far, that of course also includes Factorio, only this mod simply takes too much computing power in the course of the game.
Even if you have a high end PC now, even it would go to its knees at some point. If you had read my hardware what I have for which everything is here in my thread.
Would you know exactly that my hardware cannot be to blame.
Yes, it could have been due to Factorio itself, fortunately not.

Factorio Systemanforderungen
Minimale Systemanforderungen:
CPU:
Dual core 3Ghz+
RAM:
4 GB RAM
GPU:
DirectX 10.1 capable GPU with 512 MB VRAM - GeForce GTX 260, Radeon HD 4850 or Intel HD Graphics 5500
DX:
Version 11
OS:
Windows 10, 8, 7, Vista (64 Bit)
STO:
3 GB available space
RES:
Normal sprite resolution, Low quality compression, 1080p resolution

Empfohlene Systemanforderungen:
CPU:
Quad core 3Ghz+
RAM:
8 GB RAM
GPU:
DirectX 11 capable GPU with 2 GB VRAM - GeForce GTX 750 Ti, Radeon R7 360
DX:
Version 11
OS:
Windows 10, 8, 7 (64 Bit)
STO:
3 GB available space
RES:
High sprite resolution, High quality compression

If you have read the system requirements, then you know that I can easily play with mods.
https://systemanforderungen.com/spiel/factorio

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by ptx0 »

Miras_Athran wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:29 pm
Sure, if you do not yet know exactly the causes then it is clear that you first try to enumerate everything that could be the cause. I know my PC better than you, so I always exclude the hardware problem.
[...]
If you have read the system requirements, then you know that I can easily play with mods.
https://systemanforderungen.com/spiel/factorio
oh shit, i didn't know you were a genius. you were running your memory at 2133MHz, so, no one can take you seriously. at all. forgive me for not realising that you're a genius. it's easy to miss.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by Miras_Athran »

ptx0 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:31 pm
Miras_Athran wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:29 pm
Sure, if you do not yet know exactly the causes then it is clear that you first try to enumerate everything that could be the cause. I know my PC better than you, so I always exclude the hardware problem.
[...]
If you have read the system requirements, then you know that I can easily play with mods.
https://systemanforderungen.com/spiel/factorio
oh shit, i didn't know you were a genius. you were running your memory at 2133MHz, so, no one can take you seriously. at all. forgive me for not realising that you're a genius. it's easy to miss.
There has been, but no improvement, whether 2133, 2666 or higher does not play a role in the case.
I've already tested it because you know my PC so well. * cough *
It's up to the mod. All other mods don't cause any problems that I have on it.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by ptx0 »

Miras_Athran wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:34 pm
ptx0 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:31 pm
Miras_Athran wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:29 pm
Sure, if you do not yet know exactly the causes then it is clear that you first try to enumerate everything that could be the cause. I know my PC better than you, so I always exclude the hardware problem.
[...]
If you have read the system requirements, then you know that I can easily play with mods.
https://systemanforderungen.com/spiel/factorio
oh shit, i didn't know you were a genius. you were running your memory at 2133MHz, so, no one can take you seriously. at all. forgive me for not realising that you're a genius. it's easy to miss.
There has been, but no improvement, whether 2133, 2666 or higher does not play a role in the case.
I've already tested it because you know my PC so well. * cough *
It's up to the mod. All other mods don't cause any problems that I have on it.
oh then you should downclock the memory to 1333MHz and save money on electric cost since the memory speed doesn't matter

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by Miras_Athran »

ptx0 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:41 pm
Miras_Athran wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:34 pm
ptx0 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:31 pm
Miras_Athran wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:29 pm
Sure, if you do not yet know exactly the causes then it is clear that you first try to enumerate everything that could be the cause. I know my PC better than you, so I always exclude the hardware problem.
[...]
If you have read the system requirements, then you know that I can easily play with mods.
https://systemanforderungen.com/spiel/factorio
oh shit, i didn't know you were a genius. you were running your memory at 2133MHz, so, no one can take you seriously. at all. forgive me for not realising that you're a genius. it's easy to miss.
There has been, but no improvement, whether 2133, 2666 or higher does not play a role in the case.
I've already tested it because you know my PC so well. * cough *
It's up to the mod. All other mods don't cause any problems that I have on it.
oh then you should downclock the memory to 1333MHz and save money on electric cost since the memory speed doesn't matter
I think you should really learn to read.
The storage speed was not even mentioned.
Again, to be more precise for this game, the speed is all good enough that I had in my last post.
If you want to know exactly, nothing has really improved than I did with the 2666MHz Ram which actually only has max at the highest limit of 2733Mhz.
At the beginning of 2133, think about 600Mhz on it, according to your statement at least it sounded almost as if you wanted to say something supposed to improve in Factorio.
Even at 2133MHz, Factorio runs great, the problem is one mod.
Oh yes and something else did you have a look at the save instead of arguing forever with me who is right?

I also slowly feel that you want to be kidding me all the time. Will ignore you the next time bye bye.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by ptx0 »

Miras_Athran wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 7:09 am
ptx0 wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:41 pm
oh then you should downclock the memory to 1333MHz and save money on electric cost since the memory speed doesn't matter
I think you should really learn to read.
The storage speed was not even mentioned.
where did I mention storage speed? look who needs to learn how to read, now?

the devs have stated, memory latency has been the biggest culprit when it comes to Factorio's performance once any mod or entity count start causing problems.

the fact is, 2133MHz memory doesn't allow Factorio to do as much as 2666MHz memory. if you don't see that, well. you're blind.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by ssilk »

Miras_Athran wrote:
Mon Jan 03, 2022 7:24 am

What does my playing method have to do with the problem?
I think what ptx0 has meant with his rant (which I’m not happy with) is, that if you are using mods in a way the author hasn’t thought of, it can kill the performance. Mods are free software from people who like the game and extend it. They’re free! Some of them are really crap, some are a very fine professional products. If you’re adding 100 mods, you’re adding a lot of unknowns to Factorio. It’s not longer Factorio, it’s something else.

The point is:
- if you’re using mods in the “wrong way” (what I think ptx0 meant), the game can became very, very slow. This has been explained above: too many Factorissimo houses, imput/output by belts. The mod is not optimized for that. You cannot blame anyone for that but yourself, because you downloaded something free and used it in the “wrong way”.
- the promise that Factorio runs smooth is valid only for running it without mods. Of course, because how can the game-developers be responsible for the mod development?
- so if you play mods you need to know about how they work. At least a bit. Not for every mod, not for every mod! But when problems occur it’s of course important to try to understand how a mod works.
- the alternative of “playing the right way” is not to use mods, or to program the mod yourself.

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Re: Factorio suggestions for improvement performance patch

Post by ptx0 »

ssilk wrote:
Wed Jan 12, 2022 3:21 am
- if you’re using mods in the “wrong way” (what I think ptx0 meant), the game can became very, very slow. This has been explained above: too many Factorissimo houses, imput/output by belts. The mod is not optimized for that. You cannot blame anyone for that but yourself, because you downloaded something free and used it in the “wrong way”.
and the mod itself even advertises this.

if you mouseover inputs/outputs in the game, it'll advise you about tick rates and that jazz. same with the technology tree descriptions. but some people can't be bothered to read.

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