Tips, Designs, & Tricks

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n9103
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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by n9103 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:52 pm

Well, anything short of max inserter bonus won't grab the entire stack that's waiting.
When with max bonus (and still using steam, a rather dubious assumption) then there would just be a ripple-over effect towards the coal supply, but none of the burners should actually end up empty, or no longer than half an inserter cycle anyway, depending on how the resonance cycles line up.
In either case, it wouldn't be long lived enough to form a feedback loop, and short of intentional setups, would never all fail together, meaning any system around that far in would easily absorb the split-second of minutely decreased output.

@dark:It's feasible that the inserter could take the stack right before the last piece finishes burning.
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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by darksparks » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:15 pm

n9103 wrote: @dark:It's feasible that the inserter could take the stack right before the last piece finishes burning.
lol yeah.. you got me.. i wonder what the delay of a fast inserter is.. and if the engines temp and thus power would dip.. only way to know for sure is to test it with max stacks and look at power graph under a prolonged stress test. and then maybe have an inserter steeling coal from the inner boiler into a chest.. then see if the time it takes to replace the coal constantly ever causes a dip.. ima do that now...

ok.. no issues even with a fast inserter constantly taking out of the active boiler that is fed by a burner inserter.. tried many setups.. not even a blip on the 5 second graph after a long time.. so maybe boilers have some temperature leway.. the setup was with 1 boiler to eliminate other boilers from compensating.. and the engine was kept maxed out..
Last edited by darksparks on Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by User_Name » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:23 pm

Well, this is probably the most compact design possible, but the benefit is questionable. There is enough space to put conventional inserter-belt-inserter thing in place of a red inserter

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I get "no fuel" icon occasionally here and there, but I don't think it has any noticeable effect on overall power output
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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by darksparks » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:00 pm

User_Name wrote:Well, this is probably the most compact design possible, but the benefit is questionable. There is enough space to put conventional inserter-belt-inserter thing in place of a red inserter
looks like its not so useful to do anymore then 1 boiler jump.. as you have enough room as you say for another belt feed.. this will also reduce fuel lag

i guess its not a better power-plant.. but its experimental .. maybe some good will come of it..

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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by darksparks » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:01 am

i dont think this is the place for experiments.. but i tried to make a logistic power-plant using the mechanic.. =P iv wasted allot of space tho..
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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by LordFedora » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:30 am

darksparks wrote:
User_Name wrote:Well, this is probably the most compact design possible, but the benefit is questionable. There is enough space to put conventional inserter-belt-inserter thing in place of a red inserter
looks like its not so useful to do anymore then 1 boiler jump.. as you have enough room as you say for another belt feed.. this will also reduce fuel lag

i guess its not a better power-plant.. but its experimental .. maybe some good will come of it..

<snip>
i wouldn't put a pipe connecting a boiler output to another boiler output, that doesn't give you any advantage, and in a few cases (a loud minority of sorts) can cause the entire stack from actually heating water

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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by n9103 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:31 am

I *think* (hope) dark was just showing what the different orientations looked like...

Yes, that's what it was, cause I wouldn't want a reason to tear them a new one over overtaxing of water supplies, or the non-strict physics of fluids in Factorio :roll: ;)
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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by Skellitor301 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:53 am

wow, I'm really digging the compact steam engine designs. Though one thing to note, if I recall correctly, you can only pump so much water though the pipes. So no matter how many pumps you have, they all shouldn't be connected. At least that's what I think I remember about making steam setups, each pump supplies 13 boilers which can power 10 engines efficiently from what I recall

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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by n9103 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:52 am

14 boilers to fully max out, but yes, 10 full output engines will use 100% of the water from a pump.
That, and water in Factorio is notoriously unreliable when there's a possibility for moving in more than one direction.
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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by darksparks » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:11 pm

?? say what now.. dont boilers just heat the water.. and that in turn is pulled into the engines as they evaporate it.. doesn't multiple boiler arrays feeding a single pipe just cause the pipes water supply to be hot and draw in more hot liquid if drained? =( so im guessing the pumps that feed the boilers are pushing water all over the place.. but also i suppose its probably not real life and my man-puppet forgot to install valves..

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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by Skellitor301 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:16 am

darksparks wrote:?? say what now.. dont boilers just heat the water.. and that in turn is pulled into the engines as they evaporate it.. doesn't multiple boiler arrays feeding a single pipe just cause the pipes water supply to be hot and draw in more hot liquid if drained? =( so im guessing the pumps that feed the boilers are pushing water all over the place.. but also i suppose its probably not real life and my man-puppet forgot to install valves..
From what I figured, which Dytech kinda boosted this idea a bit, is that the pipes have a limit to the rate of how much water can go through the pipes per second. Doesn't matter how many pumps you put on the line, the pipe isnt big enough to handle more than that limit. Kinda like a big straw vs skinny straw, you get more flowing through the bigger one than the smaller one. At least that's what my best guess is to explain that limit

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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by darksparks » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:14 am

Skellitor301 wrote: From what I figured, which Dytech kinda boosted this idea a bit, is that the pipes have a limit to the rate of how much water can go through the pipes per second. Doesn't matter how many pumps you put on the line, the pipe isnt big enough to handle more than that limit. Kinda like a big straw vs skinny straw, you get more flowing through the bigger one than the smaller one. At least that's what my best guess is to explain that limit
so the issue is a bottleneck..ok damn.. im hoping that the water also doesn't have an issue with trying to choose wich direction to flow when it hits a dividing pipe that forked into two engines or joins another flow.. i wonder does liquid in pipes act like pressure or is it more like hamsters that like to just keep running in a unified direction.. iv never seen an issue..

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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by n9103 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:23 am

As long as water paths are in uniform length, and have a definite start and end, with no loops in between, then there probably won't be problems.
There are many threads about 'water flow problems' already.

The simplest and most effective build is to simply keep each pump on it's own path. There's few reasons why connecting different boiler lines would be beneficial, and none of them are practical. (they have use, but it's niche)
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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by Skellitor301 » Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:02 am

Updated:
  • Compiled and added the information provided by DarkSparks, N9103, User_Name, LordFedora, and myself to make the Compact Power Plant tip

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Re: Tips & Tricks

Post by wbykos » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:03 pm

Compact Green and Red Science Production v2

I've upgraded SBroadBent's "Compact Green and Red Science Production" to be more supplyable. At original it can feed 3.5 assembling machine2 with green packs but with improvements that solution produce and save most useful things such as "Iron Gear Wheel" "Basic Transport Belt" "Electronic Circuit" "Copper cable" and "Inserter" and can handle more than 6 assembling machine2 at each side. No more running over whole base for collect those basic things :geek:
click to show images
click to show images

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Re: Tips, Designs, & Tricks

Post by Skellitor301 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:59 am

Updated:
  • Added early game coal mining setups
Also gimme a little bit Wbykos, I'll add your second version of red and green sciences when I get an image that isnt so cluttered with the games graphics details.
Last edited by Skellitor301 on Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tips, Designs, & Tricks

Post by wbykos » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:19 pm

Here:
click to show images
click to show images

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Re: Tips, Designs, & Tricks

Post by Skellitor301 » Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:55 pm

Updated:
  • Added a second compact Red and Green science module
  • very light revising
Thanks Wybkos for the help :)

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Re: Tips, Designs, & Tricks

Post by wbykos » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:48 pm

Compact Green and Red Science Production by wbykos

- more symmetry
- more clarity
- able to feed 10+ labs
- accumulates the most used items
- easy expandable to smart inserters
click to show images

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Re: Tips, Designs, & Tricks

Post by Skellitor301 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:03 pm

Thanks for the much cleaner and easier to see version Wbykos, updated to the newer image :D

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