NauvisDay - Gaia's Revenge, and your attempt to adapt to it

[mdemp]

I love the idea of the mod.
I'm trying to understand why and what part of NauvisDay eat up CPU time, maybe I can change some setting or feature and make it a bit easier for the FPS.

[Reika]

I love the idea of the mod.
I'm trying to understand why and what part of NauvisDay eat up CPU time, maybe I can change some setting or feature and make it a bit easier for the FPS.

There is active tick code, but I have never had an issue with it significantly harming the UPS...

[mdemp]

I love the idea of the mod.
I'm trying to understand why and what part of NauvisDay eat up CPU time, maybe I can change some setting or feature and make it a bit easier for the FPS.

There is active tick code, but I have never had an issue with it significantly harming the UPS...

It's not that significant on a normal PC, yep. But it's ~6.5 when all other mods are about ~0.4-0.01, and I'm trying to run it on a potato-PC. *sigh*
I'm sorry, but I guess this is the best place to ask. Is there some way to transition a save to a default-ish state after removing NauvisDay?
I mean, the pollution/s of the machines are back to normal, but the pollution spread and the evolution coefficients seem to be stuck. At least the evolution is zero all the time now (as shown by EvoGUI).

Update: I found the "map settings" mod, I guess that answers my question.

[thereaverofdarkness]

The biters seem to ramp up far too aggressively in the early game. Not even twenty minutes in, I'd mined up a few hundred plates and had only just started a coal mining section when I got my first wave, and then my second wave, and then my third...the waves came in as rapidly as if I were inside a biter base. I didn't have time for research, so I had no gun turrets and only a pistol, and I couldn't even kill them as fast as they spawned. The pollution cloud had only just marginally reached them--I had been tracking its progress to the nearest biter base and the last time I had checked before the attack it had not yet reached the base.

I don't see any options to tone this down. What can I do to fix this? I like almost everything about the mod, but these swarms of biters were absolutely ridiculous. I wouldn't mind a 50% or even 100% increase in biter response to pollution but this was like a hundred times increase or more.

[Reika]

The biters seem to ramp up far too aggressively in the early game. Not even twenty minutes in, I'd mined up a few hundred plates and had only just started a coal mining section when I got my first wave, and then my second wave, and then my third...the waves came in as rapidly as if I were inside a biter base. I didn't have time for research, so I had no gun turrets and only a pistol, and I couldn't even kill them as fast as they spawned. The pollution cloud had only just marginally reached them--I had been tracking its progress to the nearest biter base and the last time I had checked before the attack it had not yet reached the base.

I don't see any options to tone this down. What can I do to fix this? I like almost everything about the mod, but these swarms of biters were absolutely ridiculous. I wouldn't mind a 50% or even 100% increase in biter response to pollution but this was like a hundred times increase or more.

You describe far more attacks than is normal for that point in the progression; indeed, not having any progress is supposed to stop all attacks.

However, you do have a recourse; there is a config option to reduce the maximum size of an attack wave.

[thereaverofdarkness]

I just realized what might have caused the problem. I am using the mod RealisticPower and I know that things which adjust the power consumption or production of entities adjust their pollution values accordingly. I noticed that the burner mining drill in my game is producing over a hundred times as much pollution as a greenhouse is able to control, making the greenhouse completely useless--it doesn't even de-pollute enough to justify only its power cost. Thus I suspect RealisticPower is causing a conflict by increasing pollution production while decreasing pollution reduction, and that multiplied by the bonus response to pollution from NauvisDay may have caused the biters to go on a big stampede.

I set max attack size multiplier down from 1 to 0.1 and it didn't decrease the size of the attack wave but it made attack waves come much less often, so actually better than what I expected it to do. It seems to be working okay at this point but I humbly request support for RealisticPower, an excellent mod that this rugged green pacifist cannot stand to play without.

edit 6 Sep 2020: I did a check and found that the RealisticPower mod apparently cuts all power costs in half as well as doubling the pollution output of everything. I also noticed that a spawner will consume 990 pollution in order to create one attack biter. That's hypothetically 17 biters per minute per single burner mining drill; RealisticPower only doubles it. Even without RealisticPower, a small array of just 20 burner drills and stone furnaces can produce enough pollution to call in 3 biters per second. How much the setup actually calls in is thus heavily dependent on how much of the pollution is being absorbed by the terrain.

In playing with your mod, I have noticed that the terrain does indeed absorb far more pollution than in vanilla. And perhaps part of my problem was that while I did start among trees, the ground beneath it all was some kind of caked sand. When I moved my factory to a greener position, I incurred far less wrath from biters, in fact I was able to run a fairly significant amount of industry without creating a detectable pollution cloud at all.

I think perhaps the pollution produced is a bit too high, and the terrain is too good at absorbing it. It also seemed weird that within seconds of starting a single drill running, I incur small damaging cyclonic storms from the pollution. It's also making it so that how green your starting position is becomes EXTREMELY important toward your ability to thrive in the game, as if it wasn't already enough of an issue in vanilla. It also feels suddenly too easy once you get into the electric stage, after having to struggle with that terrible burner stage. It's too much of a plateau.

The bulk data I collected on pollution and power consumption is as follows:

Code: Select all

ENTITY:			NORMAL:			REALISTIC POWER:
Burner Mining Drill:	17280/m	150kw		75kw	34560/m
Electric Mining Drill:	3000/m	90kw		45kw	6000/m
Stone Furnace:		720/m	90kw		45kw	1440/m
Steel Furnace:		4320/m	90kw		45kw	8640/m
Boiler:			21600/m	1800kw		1800kw	43200/m
Greenhouse:		-15/m	31kw		15.5kw	-30/m

- - -

I really like your mods, however! The greenhouse is especially cool, I love how huge it is! Playing your mod inspired me to forego efficiency and just plant trees between the greenhouses. I have to walk through and collect the wood manually, but it looks great and is pretty good at absorbing pollution! The glowing plants and biters are gorgeous, the expanded start is a lot of fun! (And I confess I spent over four hours on it.) I love the sounds of the greenhouses and the early science labs running! Whoever did your sound design needs a job at Wube!

[Reika]

The trees are supposed to be far more significant than the terrain type is, especially among the "natural" terrains as opposed to concrete (which is supposed to carry heavy penalties).

I can, however, say that you should not be seeing damaging levels of pollution from a single burner drill - that is far in excess of normal.

[thereaverofdarkness]

I can, however, say that you should not be seeing damaging levels of pollution from a single burner drill - that is far in excess of normal.

They might not have caused damage immediately. All I know is that they showed up as soon as I started mining, and they caused damage as soon as I was inside of one.

[Reika]

I can, however, say that you should not be seeing damaging levels of pollution from a single burner drill - that is far in excess of normal.

They might not have caused damage immediately. All I know is that they showed up as soon as I started mining, and they caused damage as soon as I was inside of one.

That is what I mean. That requires a pollution level that should not arise until far later in the game.

[thereaverofdarkness]

What is charcoal? I don't have any recipes that use it, and furnaces keep making charcoal when they were supposed to insert the wood into the fuel slot. If I try to put wood into furnaces and I put in more than the fuel slot holds, instead of filling completely and returning the rest to my inventory, it puts it in the burn slot and makes useless charcoal. My smelting arrays will start producing charcoal as soon as they run short of ore because the inserters will happily put wood into the burn slot as soon as that slot doesn't have something else in it. In order to fix the array, I have to shut off all of the wood supply and then remove wood from every furnace by hand, then make sure they all have ore again before letting the wood come in.

It's causing me a lot of headache trying to use wood to run my factory. Is there some way I can shut off the charcoal recipe?

[Reika]

What is charcoal? I don't have any recipes that use it, and furnaces keep making charcoal when they were supposed to insert the wood into the fuel slot. If I try to put wood into furnaces and I put in more than the fuel slot holds, instead of filling completely and returning the rest to my inventory, it puts it in the burn slot and makes useless charcoal. My smelting arrays will start producing charcoal as soon as they run short of ore because the inserters will happily put wood into the burn slot as soon as that slot doesn't have something else in it. In order to fix the array, I have to shut off all of the wood supply and then remove wood from every furnace by hand, then make sure they all have ore again before letting the wood come in.

It's causing me a lot of headache trying to use wood to run my factory. Is there some way I can shut off the charcoal recipe?

That is how you (re)fill air filters.

[thereaverofdarkness]

Can you add support for Asphalt Roads? I noticed that the asphalt from your mod isn't the same item as the one from that mod.

[i_i]

https://imgur.com/VIAiMyp

[Shade_HL2]

(I am having the worst time trying to think where in this forum to speak.)

Is this fun mod (and your others ) getting bumped to 1.1 soon?
[Wanted to start a group game and I lucked out of theme pick. Picked anti-pollution to spite- I mean, challenge ... my anti-green friends.]

[Honktown]

1.1 version when? This is a nice mod

[Shade_HL2]

Thanks for update! <3

[MakeItGraphic]

Love this mod, but is there a way to revert pollution values back to vanilla settings?

[Reika]

Love this mod, but is there a way to revert pollution values back to vanilla settings?

Not while keeping the mod installed, as it will just set them back (nor would 90% of the mod make sense with those values reverted).

If you mean after uninstalling, yes, you can set them with the console, but I do not know the default values offhand - consult map-settings.lua in the prototypes folder of the game data.

[thereaverofdarkness]

Can you help me? I am trying to edit the mod, but I am confused as to how it works or where each thing is. The structure is not like other mods which I am used to.

I seem to be experiencing an issue in which I get double pollution output but only half pollution cleanup. I'm okay with the output, it has been manageable and actually fun once I got past the beginning stage. But the deaerosolizer machines are essentially useless for me. I am producing 12,960 and 38,880 pollution per minute with merely two refineries, and twelve pumpjacks are yielding 52,800 per minute, and all of these have 80% pollution reduction from modules. However the deaerosolizer mark III absorbs only 4800 pollution max per minute, and it costs 310kW to run, which is more than a refinery (210kW before efficiency modules), or almost seven times as much as a pumpjack. The amount of deaerosolizers I would need even to temporarily control pollution merely at my oil production base would greatly exceed the entire power production and consumption of everything I have currently. Also, they each produce sludge around fifteen times faster than one of my pumpjacks produces oil. In short, the values are ridiculous, so I'm asking for some help adjusting them to something more reasonable. I have basic experience with editing existing Factorio mods and am good at math, as I note that you are as well.

edit: Also the pollution venting machines emit 160/minute, a mere 1/30th of what the puny deaerosolizer mark III can pick up. I haven't tried beacons or speed modules yet, but even if they do work, it's still absurdly slow and has absurdly high power usage relative to the results. Please help. I love the mod!

edit edit: I tried the speed module, it increases energy and pollution production by +50% but speed of sludge consumption by only 20%, effectively creating pollution. Same thing in reverse with the deaerosolizer. Speed modules cause it to destroy pollution. It costs the +50% energy and absorbs pollution 50% faster but produces sludge 20% faster.

edit edit edit: I checked, and the pollution fluid amounts are not adding up. The pollution absorbed by a deaerosolizer, the amount generated by a venting machine, and the amount let out by spilling the sludge onto the ground are all radically different values. Using a deaerosolizer to generate sludge and then spilling it onto the ground greatly increases the total pollution. But venting the sludge greatly decreases pollution. It's not that the venting machines aren't operating fast enough, but that they aren't generating enough pollution for how fast they are getting rid of sludge.

I guess what I really want to ask for is support for Realistic Power mod by Kenira. If there is an easy fix to do it, you can just post it here and I'll edit my own copy. Pretty please? Sorry for all the edits. The more I measure it all, the more it doesn't add up.