Assembler crafting buttons

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irbork
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Assembler crafting buttons

Post by irbork »

TL;DR
I would love to see buttons in assembler interface that allow for more manageable transfer of resources for crafting, depending on the quantity desired.
What ?
Buttons would transfer resources from player's inventory to assembler in exact quantity needed.
Crafting Buttons.png
Crafting Buttons.png (726.95 KiB) Viewed 2159 times
For example Electronic Circuit:
+1 - would transfer - 3 copper cables + 1 Iron Plate
+5 - would transfer - 15 copper cables + 5 Iron Plate
+10 - would transfer - 30 copper cables + 10 Iron Plate
max - would transfer - 198 copper cables + 66 Iron Plate
clicking any button in succession would add up.
Why ?
Currently the only way to transfer items into assemblers is with ctrl LMB/RMB on item or empty inventory space,
so for example if you want to craft 1 item you need to ctrl+LMB on empty inventory slot and then quickly ctrl+LMB on any item in the assembler input.
Also, if you want max Electronic Circuit from 1 assembler you will ctrl+LMB, and than RMB on plates to remove 50 and then add manually 16 extra, or leave those extra plates in the assembler until you pick it up or change the recipe.

Those buttons would make it much easier and probably will not bother anyone who do not need them.

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by irbork »

In case of Gun Turret there would only be +1 and max button needed, however the other will work as max as well or be removed on gui creation

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by DarkShadow44 »

I don't really see the point of that... Shouldn't you be automating that assembler anyways? For everything else, there's handcrafting.

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by jodokus31 »

I kind of like the idea. It would help to craft products in assemblers without throwing to much ingredients in it.
Esp. for lazy bastard, but also for the usual handcrafting assistance.
gun turret crafting is a good example, because they are quite expensive in the beginning and take long. So its easy to let an assembler craft a bunch

However, the standard behavior should stay: If you throw in resources, it'll start crafting normally.

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by Defective_Soul »

1 - you can just put only one ingridiend in specified amount, dirctly in ass. machine or in crate nearby
2 - you can use logical system so if some amount of item in output reached (with -1 to target / +1 per every ass. macine since currntly producing stuff ain't tracable) so it will stop load stuff just a moment before finishing last item
3,1 - do craft by hands lol
3,2 - or do an actual automation of thing making so you nearly always will hawe few things

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by jodokus31 »

Defective_Soul wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:12 am
1 - you can just put only one ingridiend in specified amount, dirctly in ass. machine or in crate nearby
2 - you can use logical system so if some amount of item in output reached (with -1 to target / +1 per every ass. macine since currntly producing stuff ain't tracable) so it will stop load stuff just a moment before finishing last item
3,1 - do craft by hands lol
3,2 - or do an actual automation of thing making so you nearly always will hawe few things
1 - too slow and unhandy. You can shift-click(? muscle-memory) on an empty space in inv to throw in everything it needs. Fast but wasteful
2 - late game, probably with circuit network, too. Nice for long or expensive crafting stuff, which needs to accumulate resources (like nuclear reactor)
3.1 - handcrafting is linear and limited
3.2 - you don't need to automated everything. also, it takes time, resources and infrastructure to do. Most sustainable for mass produced items

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by ssilk »

This enhances non-automated gameplay and therefore I’m more or less sure it will nou come. So moved to won’t implement

Please correct me, if I’m wrong. 8-)
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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by jodokus31 »

ssilk wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:21 pm
This enhances non-automated gameplay and therefore I’m more or less sure it will nou come. So moved to won’t implement

Please correct me, if I’m wrong. 8-)
I think, it's a different use case to full automation.
Usually, everything that doesn't need to be automated (single items, crafting before infrastructure is laid out, etc.) is handcrafted. So it discourage the use of semi-automated assemblers, because handcrafting is just better apart from the crafting capacity.
So, implementing this, would augment the use of semi-automation instead of handcrafting, which is a netto plus for automation (semi-automation is rather automation than handcrafting)

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by dog80 »

good idea

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by ssilk »

jodokus31 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:36 pm
ssilk wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:21 pm
This enhances non-automated gameplay and therefore I’m more or less sure it will nou come. So moved to won’t implement

Please correct me, if I’m wrong. 8-)
I think, it's a different use case to full automation. wwww
Usually, everything that doesn't need to be automated (single items, wwwcrafting before infrastructure is laid out, etc.) is handcrafted. So it discouragwe the use of semi-automated assemblers, because handcrafting is just better apart from the crafting capacity.
So, implementing this, would augment the use of semi-automation instead of handcrafting, which is a netto plus for automation (semi-automation is rather automation than handcrafting)
Hm.
A) if someone has assemblers they have also inserters and chests. They can put some stuff into the chests and the inserters will feed the assemblies.
than RMB on plates to remove 50 and then add manually 16 extra
B) if I would need to count 16 items, i just would quit playing Factorio. :D 8-) No, of course not, But there is no need to do this, because of A. And have been never in a situation, where I need to care about 50 items more or less. O.K. Maybe in the first 10 minutes…. But even then: thinking about how many items you really need would make it unplayable. And doing it that automatically would remove the need to automate it.

Maybe I would do that in some scenario that plays. Maybe in super death world . But for free play? I don’t understand it. Sorry, still listening to arguments. ;) thanks.
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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by jodokus31 »

ssilk wrote:
Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:51 pm
jodokus31 wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:36 pm
ssilk wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:21 pm
This enhances non-automated gameplay and therefore I’m more or less sure it will nou come. So moved to won’t implement

Please correct me, if I’m wrong. 8-)
I think, it's a different use case to full automation. wwww
Usually, everything that doesn't need to be automated (single items, wwwcrafting before infrastructure is laid out, etc.) is handcrafted. So it discouragwe the use of semi-automated assemblers, because handcrafting is just better apart from the crafting capacity.
So, implementing this, would augment the use of semi-automation instead of handcrafting, which is a netto plus for automation (semi-automation is rather automation than handcrafting)
Hm.
A) if someone has assemblers they have also inserters and chests. They can put some stuff into the chests and the inserters will feed the assemblies.
than RMB on plates to remove 50 and then add manually 16 extra
B) if I would need to count 16 items, i just would quit playing Factorio. :D 8-) No, of course not, But there is no need to do this, because of A. And have been never in a situation, where I need to care about 50 items more or less. O.K. Maybe in the first 10 minutes…. But even then: thinking about how many items you really need would make it unplayable. And doing it that automatically would remove the need to automate it.

Maybe I would do that in some scenario that plays. Maybe in super death world . But for free play? I don’t understand it. Sorry, still listening to arguments. ;) thanks.
My imagination is the following:
Place an assembler, select recipe and press +5: Exactly the amount of items needed is pulled from inventory and it starts to craft.
Press +1: More stuff is pulled to craft one more.
Could maybe be modded?

In case A, you have to place chest and inserter. Not very handy, it would take far too long until it starts crafting, not to mention, that I have to select the items needed manually.
I would rather place only an assembler and throw in stuff manually (by shift-clicking on empty space)
Actually, I do it already, example turrets:
- Place assembler and select turret recipe
- Throw in everything by shift-clicking on empty space. (2 times to fill it again after first one has started crafting)
- Now, I get half a stack of gears and copper out to don't waste anything, because it needs 20 iron, 10 gears and 10 copper

It's not the first 10 minutes, its like at least 2 hours and later sometimes. I guess speedrunners for 100% (because lazy bastard) would appreciate it, too.
It doesn't matter if default, peaceful or deathworld settings. Its always handy to fast craft something in parallel.
It's just convenience to reduce finicky item handling, which should be in-line with making the game more accessible for new players

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by ssilk »

jodokus31 wrote:
Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:02 am
My imagination is the following:
Place an assembler, select recipe and press +5: Exactly the amount of items needed is pulled from inventory and it starts to craft.
Press +1: More stuff is pulled to craft one more.
Till here everything is clear.
Could maybe be modded?
Of course. I think it should be possible to mod this.
In case A, you have to place chest and inserter. Not very handy, it would take far too long until it starts crafting, not to mention, that I have to select the items needed manually.
Would take only some seconds to craft chest and inserter. I mean it would be faster than placing them. And if the queue is already full in that moment, you have made an error, because you have not planned enough forward. It would remove the strategic element.
I would rather place only an assembler and throw in stuff manually (by shift-clicking on empty space)
Actually, I do it already, example turrets:
- Place assembler and select turret recipe
- Throw in everything by shift-clicking on empty space. (2 times to fill it again after first one has started crafting)
- Now, I get half a stack of gears and copper out to don't waste anything, because it needs 20 iron, 10 gears and 10 copper
I build two or three chests, two or three inserters, put in about what I think is enough and some coal and let Factorio do the rest. :)
It's not the first 10 minutes, its like at least 2 hours and later sometimes.
I don’t run around feeding assemblies, when I can feed some chest.
I guess speedrunners for 100% (because lazy bastard) would appreciate it, too.
Of course. :)
It doesn't matter if default, peaceful or deathworld settings. Its always handy to fast craft something in parallel.
It's just convenience to reduce finicky item handling, which should be in-line with making the game more accessible for new players
The point of my argument is still: you should not handle much around. Automate it! :)
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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by jodokus31 »

ssilk wrote:
Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:14 am
The point of my argument is still: you should not handle much around. Automate it! :)
I get the automation approach and I agree to the fullest. Automation runs non-stop and chugs through the work to be done, which is the key.
Automation is still inert and imprecise:
- It needs time to get fully functional, due to beltdelay and slow inserters
- It crafts as much as material is there, unless output is full or you work with combinators
- It needs exact amounts or more and therefore more buffer to get started

The contrary is crafting by hand, which is fast and precise, but very limited.

The idea is not in competition with real automation, because it will stop at some time and needs to be baby-sit.
It would be in slight competition with handcrafting, which is not a bad thing i'd assume.

Would take only some seconds to craft chest and inserter. I mean it would be faster than placing them. And if the queue is already full in that moment, you have made an error, because you have not planned enough forward. It would remove the strategic element.
Crafting chest and inserter and even placing them is not the biggest problem. It's the delay waiting for stuff to start crafting. f.e. turrets how long does it take, 30 sec. or longer with yellow inserter until enough material is in the machine? And it also doesn't affect the handcrafting queue management much, if your plan involves using assemblers. You just have a better tool to control the assembler more precisely
Could maybe be modded?
Of course. I think it should be possible to mod this.
I might give it a shot. UI could be a bit problematic, i guess

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by ssilk »

Ok, I’ve been thinking about this a lot. :roll:

I would think, this would be useful, if this would be a special assembly, which cannot be feed by inserters/loaders. Only for personal use, to speed up handcrafting. I would also restrict it, to build intermediates.

I would find it useful to have some of them (3 or 5) to craft things, which are needed very rarely. Like equipment grid stuff. (Btw. I would not use them in the beginning, I have a different playstyle, much more thinking forward, I don’t care, if something takes time to be feed, as long as it is automated)

But
A) where is then the difference to add crafting speed?
B) this thinking (only useable for players) is kind of implementation detail and balancing.
C) it is possible to implement it as mod first, and
D) I doubt it will come to vanilla, because of A and the other reasons I already pointed out.

Nonetheless I move this back to suggestions. 8-)
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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

Post by jodokus31 »

ssilk wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:53 am
Ok, I’ve been thinking about this a lot. :roll:

I would think, this would be useful, if this would be a special assembly, which cannot be feed by inserters/loaders. Only for personal use, to speed up handcrafting. I would also restrict it, to build intermediates.

I would find it useful to have some of them (3 or 5) to craft things, which are needed very rarely. Like equipment grid stuff. (Btw. I would not use them in the beginning, I have a different playstyle, much more thinking forward, I don’t care, if something takes time to be feed, as long as it is automated)

But
A) where is then the difference to add crafting speed?
B) this thinking (only useable for players) is kind of implementation detail and balancing.
C) it is possible to implement it as mod first, and
D) I doubt it will come to vanilla, because of A and the other reasons I already pointed out.

Nonetheless I move this back to suggestions. 8-)
Thanks for moving it back. :)
(Btw. I would not use them in the beginning, I have a different playstyle, much more thinking forward, I don’t care, if something takes time to be feed, as long as it is automated)
I think, it could match different playstyles very well:

f.e. for beginners, it could be easier to craft exact an amount via assembler. If I remember my first steps in factorio, i rather did crafting by hand because crafting with assemblers felt several steps away. The chest approach is not very intuitive to find it out and putting items into assembler's inputs manually is quite complex as beginner (you need to check the amounts, you need to do stack handling, etc.). So it could be a chance to let beginners understand the game mechanics better...

f.e. speedrunning is also a lot of thinking forward. Having such an option, would open different possibilities, because you often need exact amounts of items. If you overcraft items, its wasted potential, which in turn results in slower times. With assemblers currently, it's very tough to craft exact amounts, so you rather concentrate to manage the hand crafting queue with items, which need exact amount and let assemblers do the bulk crafting like gears/wire.
If you could use fast and exact crafting with assemblers, it has potential to speed up initial crafting even more.

I don't think, it's necessary to restrict the usage. It never can replace real automation. It's always superior to have a fully automated line than constantly have a need to hand-feed it. Even, if you have done it 100 times, you will ask at some point, if there's a better approach.
A) where is then the difference to add crafting speed?
I'm not sure, if I understand that question. Adding handcrafting speed would obviously encourage handcrafting itself.
B) this thinking (only useable for players) is kind of implementation detail and balancing.
I don't get that either. It's of course a small detail, which would not change anything big. Balancing? Not so much, it's more QoL and/or workflow improvement.
C) it is possible to implement it as mod first, and
That would be a good approach to test it.
D) I doubt it will come to vanilla, because of A and the other reasons I already pointed out.
If it has benefits for beginners, it could make it into vanilla. My other "power user" arguments are probably not convincing :)

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

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jodokus31 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:18 pm
A) where is then the difference to add crafting speed?
I'm not sure, if I understand that question. Adding handcrafting speed would obviously encourage handcrafting itself.
Double crafting speed = crafting me plus some assemblers (I don’t know the exact factor)
In the end there is the same result, but the order differs. :)

I think that’s the point, where we both don’t understand. For me automation is when I can fire and forget. I come back later, and what I planned has been working. And that can be multiplied by magnitudes.
B) this thinking (only useable for players) is kind of implementation detail and balancing.
I don't get that either. It's of course a small detail, which would not change anything big. Balancing? Not so much, it's more QoL and/or workflow improvement.
I said:
I would think, this would be useful, if this would be a special assembly, which cannot be feed by inserters/loaders. Only for personal use, to speed up handcrafting. I would also restrict it, to build intermediates.
B refers to that sentence. It can be a big change, because with that the uses are limited and you cannot reuse that for later.
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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

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ssilk wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:57 pm
jodokus31 wrote:
Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:18 pm
A) where is then the difference to add crafting speed?
I'm not sure, if I understand that question. Adding handcrafting speed would obviously encourage handcrafting itself.
Double crafting speed = crafting me plus some assemblers (I don’t know the exact factor)
In the end there is the same result, but the order differs. :)

I think that’s the point, where we both don’t understand. For me automation is when I can fire and forget. I come back later, and what I planned has been working. And that can be multiplied by magnitudes.
For me it's about bootstrapping. Before I can automate things properly, I need to build it. I already can utilize assemblers for crafting. (Throw down some assemblers crafting gears and wires helps a ton in the beginning). Later in the game, you have a build-everything, which addresses this even more convenient.
This change would address, that assemblers can be controlled easier and more exact. It's not really more crafting speed, because you could do it already now, if you are dexterous enough.
ssilk wrote:
Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:57 pm
B) this thinking (only useable for players) is kind of implementation detail and balancing.
I don't get that either. It's of course a small detail, which would not change anything big. Balancing? Not so much, it's more QoL and/or workflow improvement.
I said:
I would think, this would be useful, if this would be a special assembly, which cannot be feed by inserters/loaders. Only for personal use, to speed up handcrafting. I would also restrict it, to build intermediates.
B refers to that sentence. It can be a big change, because with that the uses are limited and you cannot reuse that for later.
If you really want to make a special assembly with intermediate restriction, it could be a bigger change. But I don't see the necessity. If you have the concern, that this change is too strong and would discourage full or chest automation, it is really not. If you constantly have to refill an assembler manually, its not something, you want to do forever. Esp. intermediates is something, you always want to fully automate

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

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jodokus31 wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:30 am
For me it's about bootstrapping. Before I can automate things properly, I need to build it. I already can utilize assemblers for crafting. (Throw down some assemblers crafting gears and wires helps a ton in the beginning). Later in the game, you have a build-everything, which addresses this even more convenient.
This change would address, that assemblers can be controlled easier and more exact. It's not really more crafting speed, because you could do it already now, if you are dexterous enough.
Again: we’ll not come together at this point. :) We talk here about a phase of about 10 minutes (of many hours, I’m not a speed runner ;) ), where having much more crafting capacity would be quite useful. After that phase everything should be automated and running. :)
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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

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ssilk wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:58 pm
jodokus31 wrote:
Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:30 am
For me it's about bootstrapping. Before I can automate things properly, I need to build it. I already can utilize assemblers for crafting. (Throw down some assemblers crafting gears and wires helps a ton in the beginning). Later in the game, you have a build-everything, which addresses this even more convenient.
This change would address, that assemblers can be controlled easier and more exact. It's not really more crafting speed, because you could do it already now, if you are dexterous enough.
Again: we’ll not come together at this point. :) We talk here about a phase of about 10 minutes (of many hours, I’m not a speed runner ;) ), where having much more crafting capacity would be quite useful. After that phase everything should be automated and running. :)
I understand, that its not a needed feature for certain play styles.
If you give yourself enough time to handcraft the needed stuff, you don't need the help of assemblers to boost bootstrapping.
If you don't min/max resources, its not a problem to place assemblers with chests and sink hundreds of plates in it, wait several minutes and collect products later.

But if you want to go faster, every additional click, every buffer(aka unused item), every production line which is not worth the current state, hurts. I'm thinking about deathworlds, where you have to rush to not get overwhelmed. Speedrunning is just more extreme.

For my play style it definitely would help, because i love bootstrapping and the first part of the game (until blue science). :)

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Re: Assembler crafting buttons

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use the Even Distribution mod with the Shift C cleanup shortcut

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