Fast and/or Custom Game Starts

[Chibiabos]

I follow Arumba on Youtube, he plays a number of strategy games including Factorio (he's got two gameplay series for Factorio at the moment, in fact). He decided to give himself a 'challenge game' by playing a single player game following the restriction of no crafting; that is, he cannot simply craft things as himself. Every tool or building he wants, he has to build in a factory.

This required using a cheat mode to setup, of course: he had to start with power (he chose a single solar panel), a blue advanced factory (since a regular factory would make it impossible to be able to build additional even regular factories) and a power pole between them.

I really enjoy Factorio, but feel daunted away from starting a game now and then because of how long it takes just getting to the point of having an automated setup with even just a couple miners, smelters, factories and the power and transport belt infrastructure between them. Don't get me wrong, this 'start from scratch' should never be done away with, but I wonder if its worth considering a more advanced setup as an alternative, letting you start out a new game with at least one of the basic starting buildings (though not necessarily the tech to build more) -- power (might suggest a solar panel to keep the start rough and challenging, since one panel generates limited power and none at night), a factory, maybe /three/ burner miners (instead of the current one ... this would allow one for iron, one for copper, and one for either coal or stone), one or two smelters and maybe a 50-stack of wood as starting fuel for them. This would still have a bit of a rough start, but this abbreviated startup could improve replayability for those of us who have done the start-from-scratch and just wanna get into a new game while saving the grind of the first 20 or 30 minutes or so.

It might be nice to have a general customizable quick startup to specify starting buildings ... AI to lay them out might be much, I acknowledge, so maybe just placed in the player's inventory, and maybe some way of having a startup script or somesuch that one could generate and share that would let several players share an identical setup fairly easily for maybe competitive single-player plays based on a setup (that could include a specific map seed, so they all play on the same map, or allow randomly generated map seeds).

I think this could improve both replayability (allowing players who get bored with the start-from-scratch grind after a few games) and making the game more popular (yeah lots of people like multiplayer, but some might just want to compete with other players without the playing-for-hours-at-the-same-time-as-others frustrations, but something like the Sid Meier's Civilizations challenges some fan sites post to challenge other players might even expand the market for Factorio).

[Boogieman14]

I would suggest these things are perfectly handled by mods. The things you're proposing would take a mod of just a few lines (most likely exactly the commands Arumba used to 'cheat') and is easily shared with others.

[Peter34]

I've begun to skip the starting game phase, by using console commands to gift a bunch of items to me, such as Metal Plates, Copper Plates and Coal, and a few others. Then I just go right to making a Steam Engine and some Boilers, then regular Electric Mines, skipping the startup Burner Mine phase.

That's the only time I cheat; after that I play the game straight. I find it more fun that way, since I've been through the coal-powered Burner Mine phase dozens of times by now, and it's become boring - repetetive.

Having something like two Advanced Start game modes, one Advanced and one Very Advanced, could be nice.

[ssilk]

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ator#p2801

Well, most is already existing, working and being used in mods. For me, this is a modding suggestion.

[n9103]

Suggested changes to stock that happen to already exist in some form doesn't disqualify them as valid stock ideas.
They're just unlikely to be done, since the devs prefer not to add more than needed, meaning not recreating current possibilities.

[Nova]

"We have a plugin system / mod system, so we won't implement the idea because it could be done per plugin / mod" << That's the death sentence for nearly every program / game. Ideas should be implemented if they make sense, regardless if they are already able to be done per mod.

Special game modes can be nice. I don't like the first game phase. ^^

[ssilk]

Even then: the devs would implement the special game modes as mod. Like the existing Scenario pack. They are just mods.

This suggestion is much, much simpler and should be possible to make by modders today. If not even already existing!

[Boogieman14]

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =14&t=2002

If that isn't quick enough, it'll be simple enough to use that as a template for further customization.

[The Lone Wolfling]

"We have a plugin system / mod system, so we won't implement the idea because it could be done per plugin / mod" << That's the death sentence for nearly every program / game. Ideas should be implemented if they make sense, regardless if they are already able to be done per mod.

Agreed.

Look at it from the perspective of a modder. If a modder wants something added to the game, he shouldn't make a mod for it? It makes no sense. It ends up making people want mods only for the things they don't want added to the game.

[Nova]

No, people should still mod if the want. It's just that people should not say that as disadvantage for not implementing it in the standard game. It's often in the suggestion part of some programs or games: "Why don't we implement XY? It would enhance the program / game!" - "You can already do that as plugin / mod." - And in the near future we only have fully modable programs / games which can do absolutely nothing without a plugin / mod...
Even if one mod is widely accepted and used, the devs should still think about implementing it in the game, despite that the mod already exists.

[n9103]

Except the dev's stance isn't that they won't implement things mods create.
They're just not interested in adding things that are already in the game.

For instance, they've said at one point that they're not going to add logic circuits as a new item, since those are already quite possible, if cumbersome.
Mods that add *new* functionality aren't disqualified from consideration. Mods that otherwise only simplify existing functionality are unlikely to be considered.

This is merely my interpretation, but holds true when looking at the development blog and various forum posts they've made.

[ssilk]

Even if one mod is widely accepted and used, the devs should still think about implementing it in the game, despite that the mod already exists.

Right. Remember, the game is alpha!
For now I want to see other new content. Like working multiplayer, making rail tracks by drag and draw, more end game content, more aliens, smarter circuit networks... If I want to play something like that, I can fix it myself.

[spacesloth]

Right. Remember, the game is alpha!
For now I want to see other new content. Like working multiplayer, making rail tracks by drag and draw, more end game content, more aliens, smarter circuit networks... If I want to play something like that, I can fix it myself.

I think the confusion is between a suggestion vs prioritization. Suggestions that mods can be made for are also considered for implementation into the main game. If it goes on the dev's todo list that doesn't mean it will get prioritized over working multiplayer or anything. It will get put onto their list and prioritized along with everything else according to the value it could add to the title. The main point here to take away is that just because a suggestion can be implemented through a mod is not a reason for it to be removed from consideration by the devs.

[bobingabout]

The game mode/mod could even take it one step further and remove "crafting" from the player crafting catagories so that he can't craft things by hand.