Faster Belt Corners

[Turtle]

I thought I read somewhere that corners wouldn't slow down the flow of items in 0.11 and was looking forward to it. I also thought I read it in the release notes and it's gone. I even commented on a post by korarex and now I can't find the post. I've also tried searching for the terms "belt turn corner." Was I dreaming? Does anyone remember reading anything about it?

[BurnHard]

Yes I remember, that he said something about optimizations on belts.

Roadmap first post: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ions#p4516

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Factorio 0.11 (31. October 2014)
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• Optimization of the game simulation (mainly transport belts and inserters)

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[Turtle]

Ah, maybe that's it. So I guess it's still to come in future versions of 0.11. But I could've sworn I saw it in the release notes when 0.11 was first released... I must be crazy.

[Darthlawsuit]

Maby it had an issue and they removed it

[kovarex]

We have so many things to do, mainly stabilisation of the multiplayer, that this will most probably wait for 0.12 ...

[BurnHard]

Thanks for the feedback.

[sillyfly]

Here's the message I remember:

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 272#p42937

No worries, though, we can wait for the next version

[n9103]

In the mean time, you can stick to a Split>Turn>Rejoin style to get around corners without loss of density. (Though just using a belt one speed up is almost always good enough, only this method can help with Express based belts.)

[Turtle]

Here's the message I remember:

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 272#p42937

No worries, though, we can wait for the next version

That's the post I was looking for, thanks!

We have so many things to do, mainly stabilisation of the multiplayer, that this will most probably wait for 0.12 ...

Yeah, I completely understand and don't mind waiting. I just thought I was going crazy thinking I saw it in the release notes and then not being able to find it again.

[-root]

corners wouldn't slow down the flow of items in 0.11 and was looking forward to it.

I actually like that corners slow down the flow of items. it adds an interesting "law" to the game that the player has to get around

[Nova]

I don't like it. It adds an unnecessary additional thing you have to pay attention to without a real benefit.

[Z903]

I actually like that corners slow down the flow of items. it adds an interesting "law" to the game that the player has to get around

I have to agree with -root. The problems corners create are one of the more interesting things to work to avoid. Its easy to deal with early game, just add a faster belt, but when you get to express then it becomes a problem; A problem with a solution that is not straight forward. The mechanic actually adds to the game making some thing that could be mindless actually take some thought and planning.

[Rahjital]

I agree with Nova here, belt corner slowdowns are mostly an annoyance. They don't really matter unless you need maximum throughput, and are not that hard to fix even with express belts (see n9103's comment above). I'm all for interesting game mechanics, but I believe this one just hurts newbies and annoys the veterans.

[ssilk]

I don't know what I like more. On one hand I think: when do we get rid of those corners? They are useless and dealing around with them costs massively time. On the other hand I had hours and hours of fun with optimizing belt layouts.

Surprises, when the belts got stuck in turns, and much more such things. For me - laying out big, big belt streets - this is just an annoyance, that the belts are not really reliable. (Just like trains)

This is totally newbie-unfriendly and when going to steam, this will become per sure one of the biggest critic points.

In the long run this is better, I think. We will get more interesting problems, and I think if wished it is no problem to reimplement the current behavior. Hm. A switch, which turns on "realistic slowdown in belt corners". Remembers me to OpenTTD , where they also implement many of those game-switches, like turning off path signals. But for factorio, this is just a mod.

[Chibiabos]

corners wouldn't slow down the flow of items in 0.11 and was looking forward to it.

I actually like that corners slow down the flow of items. it adds an interesting "law" to the game that the player has to get around

Its sort of puritanical ... get a little kinky with your belts, you get punished.

[Blackence]

A switch, which turns on "realistic slowdown in belt corners".

I'm not sure if the slowdown in corners is actually realistic. I should probably know since I minored in logistics (esp. intra-logistics / material handling), but I don't.

See for example this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUdZI3MLcWQ
If the curved belts are fast enough, there should be no slow-down. Of course, items have different speeds depending on their position on the belt and items must experience a speed-up if slow-downs like in factorio are to be prevented.

[n9103]

And... you just gave RL justification that faster belts in corners are needed, not that they're unrealistic. That's a particularly specialized conveyor corner that will only work on 180 degree turns, since it uses the geometry of a circle to accomplish the speed-up. It's also using a rubber belt system, as opposed to Factorio's linked plates. So it would also be less capable and durable if required to move heavy loads.

But, self-damning evidence aside RL conveyors aren't very related to Factorio, since a back-up on any standard RL conveyor system will result in either a stoppage, destruction of the product, or eventual destruction of the conveyor itself.

[Blackence]

Well, my point was that we shouldn't call the old behaviour "realistic", because most real material handling systems are probably designed so corners don't cause jams (assuming that the conveyor can handle jams, like in Factorio). I'm not saying that factorio belts are realistic, regardless of whether they have "slow corners" or not.

Anyway, why not use a 90° circle-shaped part (like one half of the 180° circle in the vid I linked above) for 90° turns, and x° for x° turns? Of course, it's still not using linked plates, so not Factorio-like.

BTW, I found this vid demonstrating a special jam handling conveyor, apparently called "accumulating conveyor" in English: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tdh-byzCk8 (Of course, the Factorio belts are quite different. I believe we should accept that a game does not need to be realistic, but then calling things in the game menu "realistic" is a bad idea).

[katyal]

Actually if you look in the center of the belt in that vid you will see a pink-ish plate conveyor just like those in the game. I've seen thoes in bottling plants and with guard rails on each side of the belt they act exactly like the one in the game.

[n9103]

Interesting clip there. Though that's still not the behavior that is the problem here.
That belt is akin to an in-line buffer chest, and only deals with temporary short-term stoppages. If it filled all the way, the same problems that happen on all RL conveyors would occur. (The same thing, though less precise feeding, occurs with raised side conveyors. It's merely a short-term buffer at best.)

I'd say a large majority of RL processes that use conveyors use direct feeding, either to or from machinery. If the belt backs up then one of the following will occur without manual intervention: The products be lost, either from mistimed processing or spillage. The machinery will be damaged by items being out of timing tolerance (for industrial processes, food is generally safe from this point). The entirety of the operation will shut down until corrected.