Long distance transport

[mICHAEL]

IN my current game I'm running into a dilemma,The Only copper resource I have access to is half the map away from my battery production,so I have to run down there with stacks of copper for it from time to time,and I also need it for red research packs. Running a belt that distance would seem to be inefficient to me,and would also result in the belt being attacked by aliens as well,and I don't have the resources to guard it all the way down. Is there a better way to get it where it's needed quickly? I was thinking Logistics robots sounded like a good option,as soon as I have them researched,as long as the robots aren't too costly to build in general,as I can't take out large alien bases yet,as this point..

[DasMonzta]

TRAINS

[Phillip_Lynx]

Do not use robots, use trains!

[Martc]

Its depends on distance, but in early phase of game I'm using transport belts. Because is to much work to setup a train stops and belt are definitely more efficient than drones. Belt won't be attacked by bitters at all. Bitter will attack mining base or you base rather than lonely transport belt. Because transport belt is no source of pollution and they are attacking biggest source of pollution in they range.

Drones are very bad choice because they are very inefficient for long distance transport and must be protected all the way, because bitters usually prefer attack them than anything else.

Trains are good choice, but they are no worth for short distances (lets say 2-3 screens max zoomed out) and for small deposits.

[Rakshasa]

Use transport belts.

Once the mining resource is used up, the belt can be repurposed for the next resource you find in that direction.

[Jythier]

Use transport belts.

Once the mining resource is used up, the belt can be repurposed for the next resource you find in that direction.

Use trains.

Once the mining resource is used up, the train can be repurposed for the next resource you find in that direction.

[Phillip_Lynx]

Use transport belts.

Once the mining resource is used up, the belt can be repurposed for the next resource you find in that direction.

Use trains.

Once the mining resource is used up, the train can be repurposed for the next resource you find in that direction.

And the farther you move out the better the train gets

[BurnHard]

Als long as belts don't have any maintenance costs such as needing electricity, definitely take belts. The slow ones. if you need more, just use two belts parallel.

Trains need fuel, complicated loading/unloading areas, schedules, more space. For oil just take pipes, don't even bother with barreling the stuff.

Trains are fun to play, but i can't see any gameplay-advantage over using belts.

[imajor]

Trains are fun to play, but i can't see any gameplay-advantage over using belts.

This is an interesting topic, I was also thinking on if the belts are more cost efficient/easier to build than trains. To be honest I don't see why train would be better. It seems that the amount of raw material needed to build a belt is less than the material needed to build a track (3 iron plate/2 tile for the belt, and 5.5 iron plate+1 stone/2 tile for track). Not to mention that setting up a train line is much more complicated than building the belt. I still make trains for long distances because I simply love trains, but it is strange that building belts even for long distance is more effective than trains. Seems like something where the rules could be changed. Maybe if bitters would attack belts, trains would be more useful.

[Jythier]

Trains go both ways. Trains can move YOU out to your base quickly.

[Gemzo]

5.5 iron plate+1 stone/2 tile for track

That's actually for 4 tiles of distance because each track is 2x2, and the recipe gives 2 as well.

Edit: Oh yeah, and don't forget about throughput comparison. That would be important if the normal belt doesn't cut it.

[Jythier]

Just use 27 normal belts. No biggy.

[Animar]

As already said the advantage of trains are that they can carry you too (wich will come verry handy if you play on low resource maps and new mining posts are more far away) and with blueprints its almost no problem to quickly set up new trainstations.
The disadvantage in trains for now is the lack of logic, signals are fine but we still need something like wait for full/half/empty wich will come in future versions I gues. Oil tank wagons are announced for 0.12 where i personaly can't wait for to play with

[ssilk]

https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... ch_case%3F

Might be a start to get to a decision...

[obuw]

I'd definitely recommend you stay away from trains and just use belts. Trains just aren't worth the hassle; they take way too much time to set up, require fuel to operate (more infrastructure to set up), can be attacked and destroyed by biters, and are just as expensive if not more expensive than transport belts in most cases.

The only reason to build a train network imo is if you're bored and want to try something different.

PS. Logistic bots probably don't work very well for long distance transportation. Perhaps with maxed out speed and capacity upgrades they could be pretty effective, even more effective than transport belts, but at that point in the game you probably already have all your infrastructure set up.

[ssilk]

I'd definitely recommend you stay away from trains and just use belts. Trains just aren't worth the hassle; they take way too much time to set up, require fuel to operate (more infrastructure to set up), can be attacked and destroyed by biters, and are just as expensive if not more expensive than transport belts in most cases.

It must be clearly said, that this depends on the map you're playing. Best example against is a map like this: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=8&t=6828

With belts it takes estimated around 7 minutes until the iron from the upper outpost is transported to the center. The belt is then filled with about 4000 items. See https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... e%3F#Belts

You can use fast belts, but if you have a lack of iron this is a really bad idea.

A train is here the only alternative you have.

[Rakshasa]

Considering how much more effective belts are, it might make sense to give them a power requirement once they reach above a certain length.

Even possibly requiring 'belt engines' at regular intervals. One could also add easy to produce fuel-based belt engines for the early game, thus not having any 'magic' belt power driving those things.

[BurnHard]

It must be clearly said, that this depends on the map you're playing. Best example against is a map like this: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=8&t=6828
You can use fast belts, but if you have a lack of iron this is a really bad idea.
A train is here the only alternative you have.

No, in my opinion it's not. With yellow belts the first ores just need some minutes more to arrive, from that point on you have a steady supply. in computer therms: Belts have some latency, but high and steady throughput (bandwidth).

Given the time a proper train setup needs to build, with belts the first ores are in your base a lot sooner.

[ssilk]

Truly, it depends. If you have to set up only one outpost: yes. (In this case) Setting up two or more: use trains.

The problem with the delayed belts is: 4000 items laying on a belt is 4000 items less, you can use. Trains significantly reduce this unusable items.

More reasons: if you use basic belts only, the throughput is only about 750 item/minute. A train can transport much more. Setting up two belt tracks in parallel is then again the point, where in this case (!) the train is better. Once you have set up the first train, the second route is much less afford then the first. If you have blueprints, then copy/paste of a train station is done within a minute or two. Defending is then also much easier cause you can ride with the trains, instead of walking/using car.

Again: it depends on many factors, there are really many variables you have to think about and there is no general rule of thumb. And in the above case it is quite clear (for me), that trains are much better.

PS: and if you think a little more: the current game stops at the rocket defense. But this will change. There will be something after that and that might lead much stronger to a point, where it is more useful to set up a train and not belts.

[obuw]

The way I see it;

- I need to waste hours trying to set up a rail network, placing all those rails (diagonal rails are a massive pain to place, the slightest water puddle in the way requires you to fiddle with curved rails trying to move around it, an even more frustrating experience).

- Then I need to spend even more time trying to set up the train schedule, figuring out how long the train has to wait at each stop.

- Make gigantic train stations and waste a lot of time trying to align inserters with cargo wagons by trial and error.

- Then once you have multiple stations, you have to fiddle with rail signals, or make sure multiple trains do not collide with each other.


By the time I work this all out, I could have made a simple conveyor belt and had 20000 items in my base.

I don't think I ever needed to deliver more than 750 iron / copper per minute to my base. The throughput is quite adequate unless you have one of those fantasy bases with 100k+ of everything stored in gigantic storage stations spanning 400x400 tiles.