Option to build ghost automatically if out of reach.

[NotRexButCaesar]

With the upcoming improvements to ghost placement and the spidertron (thank you devs), I will be using ghost building a lot more.

It is currently quite tedious to constantly press shift and release it for rotations and other interactions when building ghosts. If an option to have a ghost automatically built when the destination was out of reach were added, ghost building would become much more fun/convenient, and also easier on my pinky .

This could be right under the "pick ghost from hotbar if no items available" setting.

[SoShootMe]

Although building ghosts if out of reach would work well in some situations, I think there are many others when it would be strange or even annoying.

As a different approach, but not quite the same, how about a toggle key that inverts the build ghost function of Shift? Like Caps Lock (which seems the obvious choice for this function) inverts Shift when typing letters.

[Qon]

Yes please! This is the reason I use mods that improve my building reach, so I don't have to hear "Duduh!!!" and then try again all the time. And it's frustrating to use the same key for rotating counterclockwise as ghost building, which makes it really confusing when I want to do clockwise rotations while ghost building since I have to lift my pinky to rotate and then press again.

And for rails if I lift the shift key the rotation resets (since ghost mode is cancelled and the position become impossible) so only counterclockwise rotations are possible. And rails have 8 directions so I frequently have to do 7 counterclockwise rotations to do 1 clockwise rotation.

Trying to play with ghost placement from afar as much as possible but I am constantly in a state of unlearning how to do rotations and I never get muscle memory for how to do rotations in the right direction properly and I always just mash the rotation key until the direction is correct because of all these issues.

[conn11]

Yes, very practical suggestion!
This could be handled like the opt-in feature of picking ghosts if an entity is not available to not confuse new players. Either via a new option or expanding the already existing option of picking ghosts.

[NotRexButCaesar]

Although building ghosts if out of reach would work well in some situations, I think there are many others when it would be strange or even annoying.

For example?

As a different approach, but not quite the same, how about a toggle key that inverts the build ghost function of Shift? Like Caps Lock (which seems the obvious choice for this function) inverts Shift when typing letters.

Could work too, but might be the cause of a lot of confusion with accidental key presses.

I think that generally, if one is building within their reach, it is never bad for the item to be directly placed from the inventory. For the edge cases where this might be useful, one can just use shift.

[SoShootMe]

Although building ghosts if out of reach would work well in some situations, I think there are many others when it would be strange or even annoying.

For example?

Because reach is not visible, it makes it more likely you'll unintentionally place ghosts. I think the visual cues (translucent version of the item and the ghost attached to the pointer) aren't enough to mitigate this. It's the implicit switch to ghost placement, based on where you are building, that I think would make it feel strange; this doesn't apply with the current behaviour (or my suggestion of a "build ghosts" toggle) because ghost placement is explicit.

To look at it another way: to me, "build ghost if out of reach" changes from slightly undesirable to beneficial at a certain point (when construction robots are well established) in the course of a game. Being a UI setting, which applies across games, seems somehow a bit wrong as a result. Just my opinion of course.

As a different approach, but not quite the same, how about a toggle key that inverts the build ghost function of Shift? Like Caps Lock (which seems the obvious choice for this function) inverts Shift when typing letters.

Could work too, but might be the cause of a lot of confusion with accidental key presses.

Fair point. The chance of accidental key presses could be reduced by the binding being a key combination rather than Caps Lock as I suggested. The chance of confusion could be reduced with a toolbar button that indicates state, similar to "Toggle personal roboport" and/or having no default binding.

[NotRexButCaesar]

Because reach is not visible, it makes it more likely you'll unintentionally place ghosts. I think the visual cues (translucent version of the item and the ghost attached to the pointer) aren't enough to mitigate this.

I don't think so, but that may be a matter of opinion.

To look at it another way: to me, "build ghost if out of reach" changes from slightly undesirable to beneficial at a certain point (when construction robots are well established) in the course of a game. Being a UI setting, which applies across games, seems somehow a bit wrong as a result. Just my opinion of course.

So maybe it could be a map setting that if unchecked (like the research queue), unlocks with construction bots just like the destroyed entity>ghost and the blueprint toolbar buttons unlock with bots and the research queue unlocks with first rocket.

Fair point. The chance of accidental key presses could be reduced by the binding being a key combination rather than Caps Lock as I suggested. The chance of confusion could be reduced with a toolbar button that indicates state, similar to "Toggle personal roboport" and/or having no default binding.

That sounds good. I would be happy with it, but still like my suggestion better.

[jodokus31]

Both Suggestion Sound good. Im Not sure which i would prefer. (Sry for typos. Mobile Device is uncontrollable)

[SoShootMe]

To look at it another way: to me, "build ghost if out of reach" changes from slightly undesirable to beneficial at a certain point (when construction robots are well established) in the course of a game. Being a UI setting, which applies across games, seems somehow a bit wrong as a result. Just my opinion of course.

So maybe it could be a map setting that if unchecked (like the research queue), unlocks with construction bots just like the destroyed entity>ghost and the blueprint toolbar buttons unlock with bots and the research queue unlocks with first rocket.

The destroyed entity ghosts and research queue unlock per-game. The blueprint stuff unlocks the first time you get bots, but is available from the start in new games; presumably to avoid UI overload for new players (and the best solution I can think of for that). After some more thought, despite my previous comments, I think the best model is the latter.

Fair point. The chance of accidental key presses could be reduced by the binding being a key combination rather than Caps Lock as I suggested. The chance of confusion could be reduced with a toolbar button that indicates state, similar to "Toggle personal roboport" and/or having no default binding.

That sounds good. I would be happy with it, but still like my suggestion better.

It's worth noting that the two suggestions (an option to always build ghosts if out of reach, and a toggle to swap build/build ghost actions) are not incompatible .

[Ajedi32]

FWIW, I think it should just be a toggle to turn on "ghost building by default". Once you have a personal Roboport and a few robot speed researches under your belt there's not a major advantage to directly placing regular tiles anyway. (I made a similar suggestion in my earlier compilation of ghost building QoL improvement ideas: viewtopic.php?p=493231) That also avoids the problem of running out of materials while building.

Regarding the awkward default keybinds for rotating ghosts, I've have rotation bound to Shift+Scrollwheel since shortly after I first started playing. I've found that to be a significant improvement over the default.

[NotRexButCaesar]

Regarding the awkward default keybinds for rotating ghosts, I've have rotation bound to Shift+Scrollwheel since shortly after I first started playing. I've found that to be a significant improvement over the default.

Sounds very interesting: I’ll have to try that.