"Each" Signal Choice as Stack Size Control Signal

[Meddleman]

TL;DR

Please add the "Each" signal choice as a Stack Size Control Signal to Inserters to allow more finely tuned control.

What ?

Are there plans to add the "Any", "Every", or preferably the "Each" signal choice as the Control Signal to Inserters when overriding Stack Sizes?
The idea is to use the count of the current signal used as a filter (which can arbitrarily change with multiple signals on the same wire) as the same signal (and count) for the Stack Size.
Even on Stack Filter inserters it handles multiple signals perfectly fine and in sequence when wired with the "Set Filter" condition.

Unbenannt.png (228.07 KiB) Viewed 8270 times

Why ?

Example, Requester Chest has 20 of one item, and 4 of another.
With the aforementioned addition, as the current filter signal is used by the inserter to pick up that specific item, the same signal count overrides the stack size (within min-max bounds). It picks up 12, and then 8.
It then picks up a different item now that it has a different signal, and of course picks up only that count of items, being 4.
Because its set to the "Each" control signal, that could first be arithmatically-combinatorially altered, (divided by 2, or adds 1) for more finely tuned control, it might first pick up two sets of 10 of the first item,then two sets of 2 of the second item.

But this seems nonsensical and weird!

I know, 99% of players would like to have their inserters working with maximum stack size all the time, but then why we even have the option to set stack size with a signal?
For those wanting to squeeze that last bit of efficiency percentage from their factories with inserter magic, this could be a simple yet useful addition to the game.

But its being added to 0.17 anyway!

If it is, my apologies. Move right along

Thankyou for the consideration.

Tag Cloud For Searches

control signal inserter inserters signals override overide overriding overiding stack stacks multiple combinator combinators condition conditions current filter filters filterinserter filtering wire green red arithmetic arithmatic decider combination item items squeeze efficiency factory factories suggestion suggestions simple addition any every each choice choices

[SupplyDepoo]

This or a way to set signal priority on the inserter and a combinator to select signals by MAX/MIN is needed! Thank you.

[durzolr]

+1 to this.

I'm currently learning deeper circuit logic, and have tasked myself with creating a functional sushi belt system for a 30 assembler "admin" module (my internal name for where I produce all my belts, inserters, etc for actually BUILDING my factory.) With as many different items as is needed for this (using IR overhaul) all my inserters are running with set filters coming from chest/combinator instructions. I'm confused to why I can tell it WHAT to pick up, but not HOW MANY to pick up. I guess I can add another combinator to figure out how many I need and then output that as an alphanumeric signal, but I'm working with tight quarters and that seems unnecessary.

[sparr]

Currently you can set filters on a filter inserter with any positive signal, and you can set the stack size with some specific control signal. However, if you send multiple item signals then there's no way to say "pick up as many foo as you can, but limit stack size to n if you are picking up bar".

Coincidentally, there's also an unused permutation of the UI, where "set stack size" is enabled but "Control signal" is empty.

I'd like to propose that in this configuration, the stack size would be set to the signal for the item being picked up.

[IronCartographer]

Edit: This was posted in a different thread and merged into this one. The Each solution is an interesting concept.

How would this work with multiple signals received? Taking the maximum or minimum value is costly, so there's a reason why combinators don't support it.

If it only works with one signal received, how does the player ensure that this is the case at any given time? Would it not depend on logic comparable to that required for setting a specific control signal, as supported already?

[sparr]

No max or min, it would just use the signal for the item it's picking up. Picking up iron ore? Stack size is the iron ore signal. Picking up coal? Stack size is the coal signal.

[Optera]

+1
I've requested that years ago when stack size became configurable.
Maybe now that 1.0 is out we can get this qol improvement.

[Sad_Brother]

+1
Very much wanted.
As a way to prevent inserters to pick up more than can be placed.

[ssilk]

+1
I've requested that years ago when stack size became configurable.
Maybe now that 1.0 is out we can get this qol improvement.

I’ve found this:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62189 "Each" Signal Choice as Stack Size Control Signal

[Sad_Brother]

I’ve found this:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62189 "Each" Signal Choice as Stack Size Control Signal

Perfect, except it was not added

[ssilk]

I’ve found this:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62189 "Each" Signal Choice as Stack Size Control Signal

Perfect, except it was not added

O.k. I take that as the confirmation that both threads request the same.

merged with older subject — ssilk

[Sad_Brother]

O.k. I take that as the confirmation that both threads request the same.

I'm not sparr who start merged thread. May be he would not agree.
I would better suggest special inserter for this task. No manual filters, only logic control and couple of options.

[KaiserTom]

It's kind of disappointing that I have yet to see this topic be acknowledged by a dev. Loading things to an exact amount on a wagon shouldn't be this difficult. And wagon filters just cause the inserters to stall which prevent you from using just one requester chest rather than 24 of them.

Also on the topic of similar suggestions, viewtopic.php?t=49639&sid=27842fedf4988 ... b843e2f370 is basically the same suggestion worded differently.

[Squelch]

I have spent far more time trying to find a workaround for this than I'd like to admit.

Set filter and set variable stack size for EACH looks viable at first, but we are denied the necessary control signal for what the inserter is inserting next. We can only check what is in hand, and that is already subject to the stack size which is exactly what we want to control. Without feedback from the inserter as to what is being inserted, the control signal ends up being the sum of the filtered items, not each of them. This entirely negates set stack size for filtered items.

Being able to set the stack size for EACH based on what the inserter is, or is about to insert, would be most useful.

[Sad_Brother]

Technically it is possible to give each inserter single item filter and desired stack size for that item.
It is possible to change filter/size each tick for inserter to take another item.
It is possible to count items, taken by inserters, as already loaded.
But in my opinion it is too much ineffective and overcomplicated compared to this suggestion.

[ssilk]

BTW: I remembered the post of the blueprint which solved some of the mentioned problems.

viewtopic.php?p=435777#p435777

I used this in my LTN network to load trains for supply materials fast. It is made for LTN, yes, but I think it can be adapted to any kind of inserting station, because the basic idea is to use belts for loading. And how it does it is the know how. From LTN it just takes the signals how much the requester chests should request and how much to load into the wagons. Can be replaced with a constant combinator (negative numbers).

Not saying this suggestion isn’t needed or so. Just to help out, until it is like so.

[Nosferatu]

So I got this working using combinators but at least for loading trains it's not worth it.
The problem is I can do it for one chest - but loading a train and avoiding that multiple inserters would not mess it up is not possible.
Except if you simply divide the requested goods by the number of inserters, but that gives you a lot of unnecessary inserts with reduced stack size which makes plan B actually faster...

But first here is what I did:
1.) Reduce the requested material by 11 - the stack filter inserter will now only insert only items that it can load with stacksize 12
2.) If there is no request left let a cloak tick once
3.) Use the clock to tick down the stacksize AND adjust the requests accordingly.
4.) Reset and stop the clock when reaching 0

Misc Loader1.png (531 KiB) Viewed 7052 times

It works but I will not use this for train loading - if anyone can provide a different use case I can try to make a useful blueprint out of this.

Plan B for trains:

Misc Loader2.png (206.29 KiB) Viewed 7052 times

This one exploits the fact that in factorio most of the time we transport multiples of 50 items.
The 4 stack inserters working together will move 48 items - then they will choose the next stack to move and do so simultaneously again.
To ensure that there are no mistakes made if above assumption doesn't work a combinator is placed before each inserter.
The first one divides the request by 12, the second by 24, third by 36, forth by 48.
That means if there are only 36 items left to move the last inserter not see a signal.

The normal filter inserter is set to stack size 1 and handles the leftovers.

-----------------
So back to the topic:
For trains even if we have what has been requested in this thread it would not be enough to fast load a train without again needing a lot of combinators.
Except the devs also include the option that inserters send out a negativ signal showing what they intend to pick up.
This signal would have to be sent out in the current tick = before a second inserter calculates it's next action.
Please prove me wrong on that one ^^

[mrvn]

I'm all for the each choice. It would be useful.

But for loading a train from multiple chest you would still need lots of combinators. What would change would be that you subtract 12 form the count between each inserter. So when you need to load 30 items the first inserter loads 12, the second 12, third 6. It would certainly speed up dealing with leftovers. No more loading the last 11 items one by one.

[Sad_Brother]

But first here is what I did:
1.) Reduce the requested material by 11 - the stack filter inserter will now only insert only items that it can load with stacksize 12
2.) If there is no request left let a cloak tick once
3.) Use the clock to tick down the stacksize AND adjust the requests accordingly.
4.) Reset and stop the clock when reaching 0

Nice idea.

The first one divides the request by 12, the second by 24, third by 36, forth by 48.

Another nice idea.

you subtract 12 form the count between each inserter

Even better.

But what if your input chests are not full? First inserter would have nothing to move and overs would have no command.
What if you need several items? Input chest full with one, but white inserter set another filter.

Is any way to select the signal, which would be used by white inserter from many signals?

[Nosferatu]

I'm all for the each choice. It would be useful.

But for loading a train from multiple chest you would still need lots of combinators. What would change would be that you subtract 12 form the count between each inserter. So when you need to load 30 items the first inserter loads 12, the second 12, third 6. It would certainly speed up dealing with leftovers. No more loading the last 11 items one by one.

Yeah your are right. Didn't think about that.

But what if your input chests are not full? First inserter would have nothing to move and overs would have no command.
What if you need several items? Input chest full with one, but white inserter set another filter.

Looks like it would fail in both those cases. But the second one should never happen.
We are filling one train wagon using 5 chests. Should be lots of spare capacity.

Is any way to select the signal, which would be used by white inserter from many signals?

I didn't see one.

PS: The "Plan B" Station including Blueprint can be found here: viewtopic.php?p=514368#p514368