Can't get past level 11 of the Supply Challenge Scenario

[armatas]

So I wanted to try the Supply Challenge scenario (singleplayer), and I like it.
But it seems impossible to finish level 11.

The first 3 tries I just got to learn the map, then to the point I figured out I needed to do research, and then that I shouldn't research the wrong tech tree
But by try 4, I think, I got to level 10/11, and then I learned I should not just do research, I should have planned building a MASSIVE research base from the very beginning... And don't even think of grabbing extra points by finishing a level early, there really is no second to spare.

Level 11 wants me to supply 10 Fast Transport belts.
Which require "Logistics 2" researched, to build. Which is a 30 * 200 research project.
Now, I think that's broken, but I haven't played factorio enough to say if it's just very hard or very much impossible. But I'm reasonably certain that it's broken/a bug/not intentional.

I know that when I load the map, in the terminal it says

Code: Select all

53314.233 Loading level.dat: 1814884 bytes.
53314.234 Info Scenario.cpp:187: Map version 0.17.32-1

So, likely the tech tree since 0.17 has changed to break the scenario?

But anyway, I did some math on that.

Every level in this scenario gives you about ~6 minutes to finish (by level 10), so at level 11 you had roughly 60 minutes playtime to set up a base (and supply the requested items every ~6 minutes).
All these requests seemed reasonable until level 11, but that level makes me feel very insecure about my mega-factory planning skills

So to research "Logistics 2", which requires Automation Science Packs and Logistic SP, you need to have researched Automation and Logistics previously (automation, because you can hardly hand-craft all these in the time provided).
Again, the research is 30 * 200, so 30 seconds per unit run, and 200 of these (which means 400 science packs). 6000 seconds (or 100 minutes) realtime...
To squash these 100 minutes into under 6 minutes would require 17 research labs, by level 10 at the latest (so you have the research done by level 11 to produce the items).

To craft the 400 science packs required (at some time around level 9, so you can research at level 10), you'll need 2000 iron plates and 800 copper plates total for all the parts required (if my math is correct), and of course must have researched "Logistics" by then. The crafting time of one Logistics Science Pack is 6 seconds with the level 1 Assembling machine, meaning 1200 seconds for 200 packs. So to produce the required number in, say, 5 minutes requires an even 4 factories building in parallel.
So you need 8 factories feeding science packs to your 17+ labs, 4 for each type. The supply chain for that output... well I didn't try to calculate that.

On top of that, the actual level requirement of 20 Automation SP and 20 Logistic SP, to provide to the Chests, seem like peanuts.
(And the next level asks for Steel plates, but Steel processing is an ez 5*50 research by comparison, needing only Automation SP's.)

What does anyone else think? Could this be doable? I really don't think the scenario's intended like this. But I haven't built enough factories to know if you could scale that quickly, if you try very, very hard. I just know I won't be trying any more.
I guess if you really want a challenge, this might be it?
Also, is there a way I can just cheat-spawn the required items, or get the research, to check out the next level?

[DaveMcW]

Here is an example of what is possible to research in 60 minutes: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/723546869

[armatas]

Here is an example of what is possible to research in 60 minutes: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/723546869

Thanks, I'll check it out for the blueprints, I think
Have you checked out the scenario map, though (it's static, meaning always the same)? Maybe I should have been more specific, for THAT map.
It's limited in size and doesn't have nearly the amount or size of resource patches that FP generated maps, like that speedrun, can have.
Also, you don't have to run around like a headless chicken to fulfill requests every 6 minutes.

That said, I'm just starting to build up a BP library and re-usable designs, so it might just be possible with persistence and blueprinting.

[Serenity]

https://codepen.io/Tickthokk/full/NBbKPZ/

Doesn't seem too bad at first glance. At 45 science per minute you need 4-5 minutes to research it. That's the standard 5 red and 6 green science with AM2

Also:
https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.htm ... e-pack:f:6
It's really not much. Science only becomes expensive once you get to blue and purple. Military used to be very expensive, but it no longer requires gun turrets

[armatas]

Alrighy, thank y'all for the links and feedback.
When you say the math checks out, and after I watched some of the speedrun, then I guess it just shows how much better I still can get at scaling up the factory quickly.

Which shouldn't be surprising when I know how important build order and calculus is in these games, and I just have to treat this scenario as the speedrun it actually is.

I'll come back to it once my understanding of the BOs is more ingrained, and I'll just chill another FP game or two in the meantime.