Can steam generators be used in emergencies only?

[Fullcupofdirt]

In my factory, I have a solar panel system that mostly powers the facility, and some old steam generators. I have enough capacitor storage to last through nights, but the generators always kick in. Is there any way for the steam generators to be controlled to be on/ off the main grid automatically or at least shut off unless i'm being attacked?

So, for a summary:

Can generators be used as an emergency boost only?

[DaveMcW]

Not easily. Steam engines have a higher priority than accumulators.

There is a trick with a circuit network, where the signal to feed the boilers is turned off when you have enough solar power.
https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... ailable.3F

You can also connect steam engines to your network through a buffer of accumulators, which doesn't quite turn them off but does make them run much slower while solar is running. It becomes more effective as you add more accumulators to your network.
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... php?t=5585

[Xterminator]

Not sure if it will work in a saved game (it should though) you could always install Dytech Core and Dytech Energy module. That allows for secondary steam anyone types, which makes them do just what your asking. :p

[Zourin]

Solar panels provide a baseline amount of power at night. As long as that nighttime baseline is enough to power your systems, your Steam generators will remain largely inert. Because of the ramp up time Steam plants require, accumulator banks will provide power for short term spikes while the Steam engines rev up in case the problem is longer term, such as biters gnawing on the transmission lines from the solar fields.

You can use a 'coupling' system of physically disconnected (yet adjacent) substations that share an accumulator bank. The steam power plant will only rev to charge these accumulators, which relay power into the solar power network. Power is capped based on the number of shared accumulators, but again, with the shared accumulators full, the steam plant will only compensate as the accumulators are drained. Should accumulator power be completely drained/overloaded, the steam plant provides power through the couplings and prevent a total shutdown.

[ssilk]

Solar panels don't produce any energy in the night. About 40 seconds. https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... e=Game-day

[xnmo]

I personally find the easiest way to temporarily turn off your steam power is to just remove a single piece of pipe in the connection. I've tried the circuit network finangling trick but to be honest it didn't quite really work as well as I would have hoped, and it's awfully complicated to set up for something that should be as simple as going into the power production screen and dragging the steam engines down to move them to the lowest priority.

[ssilk]

Personal opinion. I set this up now in 5 minutes. And it spares me 15 and a lot of coal.

[Nova]

5 minutes is a huge time for something which doesn't really work as good as possible and which should work from start on. You lose ca. 4 coal per boiler, that's 56 coal if you use the "optimal" amount of 1 pump + 14 boilers + 10 steam generators.

[ssilk]

Once blueprints can be saved/loaded it will take me two mouse clicks.

[Nova]

Even then this should be implemented.

[ssilk]

I think you don't understand the problem with changing of the priorities.

Currently it is so: We have producers and consumers. For every tick or so every consumer sends his demand into the electric network, which tries to fullfill the demand with the given priorities. So first the solar panels are taken, then the steam engines and then the accus.

The accu is special, cause it is at the same time consumer and producer. It is - as already said - the producer with the lowest level and also the consumer with the lowest level.

This leads to the current behaviour: Accu is loaded only, if solar + steam engine can fullfill the demand. It doesn't make sense to change this priority, cause this leads to the situation, that the accus are loaded before the laser turrets are loaded. So this change of priority can be excluded.

Remains the priority of producers. So if we stack the accus before the steam engine, this would lead indeed to the wanted situation, that they are unloaded before the steam-engine will begin to run. The problem with this is: If all accus are empty at the same time, there is no time left to produce enough steam-power. In other words: The accus won't go empty, if the steam-engines would continuously produce power over the day and night. So this is an option, which needs to be learned first.

And now comes the philosophy behind Factorio into play: Of course it would be possible to add a switch into every electric network info. But there are some reasons against this:
- There is no physical representation of this state. The electric network is some virtual thing, you can measure statistics and see, how it is going, but there is nothing, where you can store a configuration-setting. I don't say this is not possible, but this is very unlike for Factorio, that most settings have a physical (=entity) representation.
- Even so: What, if you merge two electric networks together? Both networks have different settings, which one should be used?
- Factorio is about automation. I won't be in the situation, that I need to switch this on/off every day/night. This is stupid.
- It leads to logical problems: If the accu has a higher production priority, than consumption priority, it would load and at the same time also unloaded.
- Accus can stack in two or more networks at the same time. Which priority is the right?


I repeat: This is not the way it would be working here. There needs to be some entity-representation of the current state of the electric network, some "electric-network-controller" (perhaps looking like a transformer station), which knows the current statistics and creates a signal (or some signals, a signal is something like "iron-ore: 1023898"), which can tell other devices to be switched on/off. Or - if you have that why not? - this device is allowed to change the priority itself. Automatically or by hand. Because you can have it only once per electric network. Which also prevents of mixing two electric networks into one.

[Nova]

I just want to make it so that the steam generator only work if the accumulators are empty and the solar panels can't keep up. They should stop in the moment (or really close) when the solar panels generate enough energy. Everything else doesn't matter for me.
Well, then they could implement your "electric network controller". Or just make it possible to use smart settings on the pump. Electric settings for every smart object would be nice, too.

I don't really get your comment about "accus before steam machines". Could you reword that?

[ssilk]

I think its quite clear, what is wanted, but as with the bridges or boat the simple solution will bring the game into a dead end.

And indeed, there are some words wrong in the quoted sentence.

I meant, if the priority of accu is before the steam engine, then they would be unloaded,before the steam engines need to be turned in. Now, how it is yet, all accus will loose their charge at the same time. And in this moment the steam engines need to get into the game.

But this is too late!

The correct way would be, if they are turned on some seconds/minutes earlier. This depends on the stored energy and the needed amount. If the steam engines are turned on in the right moment the accus will have some little rest energy in the morning.

[Nova]

Okay, thanks.

[Zourin]

I think its quite clear, what is wanted, but as with the bridges or boat the simple solution will bring the game into a dead end.

And indeed, there are some words wrong in the quoted sentence.

I meant, if the priority of accu is before the steam engine, then they would be unloaded,before the steam engines need to be turned in. Now, how it is yet, all accus will loose their charge at the same time. And in this moment the steam engines need to get into the game.

But this is too late!

The correct way would be, if they are turned on some seconds/minutes earlier. This depends on the stored energy and the needed amount. If the steam engines are turned on in the right moment the accus will have some little rest energy in the morning.

This exactly how a coupling system like I described before works. The steam engine kicks in as soon as power falls over to the accumulators. Accu's cushion the drain and can handle large spikes rapidly, while the Steam plant begins to provide power coverage through the shared accumulator bank. So rather than Solar > Steam > Accu's, you logistically get Solar > Accu's + Steam.

[DaveMcW]

So rather than Solar > Steam > Accu's, you logistically get Solar > Accu's + Steam.

Sometimes you want Solar > Accu's > Steam though. Depending on whether the accumulators can last through the night.

[torham]

I personally like the water storage method. the idea is to store pre - heated water for use overnight. It acts as a very low tech accumulator. The main trick here is to limit the speed at which the water passes through the water boilers as it is getting heated. Water pump is ideal here, as with its rather slow pumping speed, it acts as a flow regulator. With some thought and experimenting, I can run my whole base overnight with around 6 boilers ( around 5MW consumption). During the day the solar takes over and the boilers are slowly refilling the water tanks. During the night the water is getting depleted, but at no point in time I am using more than 6 boilers. I am still not quite sure If I am actually saving any fuel ( since the 6 boilers have to run most of the day) but it sure is more compact.

[User_Name]

Solution:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=8&t=6617

[Nova]

That's better, but still not quite good enough.

[User_Name]

That's better, but still not quite good enough.

Why?
It does just what topicstarter requested.