Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

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Guimdefreitas
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Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by Guimdefreitas »

Hi people. I'm making my first playthrough that will go on to lauch the rocket and such. Building my factory and several other things and such; I built it in a way that was good enough for the first half of the game, however as I get nearer and nearer to the ending, I feel that it doesn't support everything I need in terms of space and production capacity and decided to rush and build construction bots to help me completely disassemble my factory so that I can re build it to meet my personal requirements. Then I began wondering if this feeling is something that happens to more people.

So, I ask you, has this happened to you ?

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by 5thHorseman »

I don't think it's ever NOT happened to me.

I tend to build 3 or 4 factories in any given game.

1. The starter factory, that gets me red science and belts and basic inserters, and maybe circuits and gears to hand craft faster.
2. A starter mall, that makes all the stuff I need to make my "real" factory. When I have this, the starter factory is superfluous.
3. The "real" factory, that does everything. This frequently has a redesigned mall in its core that eats the starter mall.
4. The post-rocket factory (if I continue) that is all about "x science per minute." I don't usually trash the "real" factory for this, but it is a separate entity.
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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by Hannu »

Guimdefreitas wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:28 am
So, I ask you, has this happened to you ?
Yes, in first games. Instead of demolishing old base I built a new base nearby. Now I make intentionally a starter base. It is very common practice among experienced players. It is more practical to build a small beginning base instead of leaving room for everything big base needs. I like to keep old structures as some kind of museum stuff. It is tedious to clean them and cost of new buildings is negligible.

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by MEOWMI »

My base always becomes inadequate at some point. I usually solve it by expanding the base, however that will cause some problems or bottlenecks of its own so I do tear down the old sections eventually, but I make a point to always try to build the new replacement stuff before demolishing the old.

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by Amarula »

Yes.

I do have a standard blueprint that I use for a starter base when I start a new game, and that starter base is small and easily demolished. Several times I have built a fairly large base, and wanted to demolish it, and decided it was easier to start over than take it down.

I am actually currently working on a major reconstruction project. There doesn't seem to be a lot of advice out there for actually deconstructing a major base, so I am starting to compile some ideas based on my experience.

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by Serenity »

There will always be cases where you have to redo something because it doesn't work or you didn't place or space something correctly. But in time you will learn what you need in the future and can plan ahead more. It's possible to build things in a way that supports scaling up. Up to a point at least.

I keep my base for a long time and then just bring in new materials by train when I need more. For example by doing smelting or circuit production elsewhere. But also leave enough space that can I do lot of circuits in the main base using beaconed builds.

Basic starter bases can be built in your smelting area. You need a lot of smelting later on, but at the beginning you don't even have the ore for it. So plan out where all your smelting will be. Then you can do some simple builds for red and green science there and some basic items. After you built your proper base a bit away from that you can demolish it and later build smelters there.

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by Kyralessa »

One way to handle this without necessarily having to completely demolish your main base is to create outposts accessible by train that focus on certain things you need, such as different kinds of science or various circuits.

If you spread out this way, you can make those outposts as large as you want while keeping their footprint in your main base limited.

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by MeduSalem »

Guimdefreitas wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:28 am
[...]
Then I began wondering if this feeling is something that happens to more people.
As a veteran I can assure you that this is absolutely normal Factorio experience. Nothing you need to worry about.

Even on your x-th playthrough something of your factory will turn out a total mess because you begin to adapt to (bottleneck) problems more dynamically as they happen instead of planning ahead properly and then you end up using bots to clean up the mess.

Only if you have like 1000 hours of gameplay you will probably be experienced enough to build a factory which inherently avoids all the mess.

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by Durentis »

Guimdefreitas wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:28 am
as I get nearer and nearer to the ending
There's an ending? I always seem to stop playing for a while before I reach a point where I might stop demolishing and rebuilding in different ways.. and this is typically well after I have multiple nuclear facilities. /shrug

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by Hannu »

MeduSalem wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:09 am
Only if you have like 1000 hours of gameplay you will probably be experienced enough to build a factory which inherently avoids all the mess.
Even then you must have much self discipline and patience. I mean if you have 50 belts on pocket and you could build fast working solution, but instead you drive to base and take 200 belts to build things correctly. I am not sure if it leads to faster overall proceeding. Especially if you can just abandon an old base and build new from scratch when you get access to complete bot logistics. I have tendency to build fast and careless at startup phase but be very perfectionist when I build permanent end game base.

Demolishing takes time. If I have to clean large area I build a train station, put roboports and command bots to bring everything on station. Then I go somewhere else to do something else and when I came back after several hours cleaning is ready and I can bring stuff in my new base and use bots to sort it.

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by MeduSalem »

Hannu wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:50 am
Even then you must have much self discipline and patience. I mean if you have 50 belts on pocket and you could build fast working solution, but instead you drive to base and take 200 belts to build things correctly. I am not sure if it leads to faster overall proceeding. Especially if you can just abandon an old base and build new from scratch when you get access to complete bot logistics. I have tendency to build fast and careless at startup phase but be very perfectionist when I build permanent end game base.
Definitely.

I myself, even though I have probably sunk more than 2000 hours into the game, have never done it without a mess but that is also because my philosophy is similar to yours... build a fast and dirty early base. Just make science work. Then rush for bots and then start building my permanent base using my library of blueprints after that and eventually tear down the early base in parallel when parts of it are no longer required.

The only thing I do care about from the beginning is that I don't make my life harder than necessary for the later migration/expansion part. Like I hate for example having to build over ore patches. Hence... mine them out in time before I get there. Don't care if a million ore is stored in some temporary chests somewhere which then takes hours to consume later, if i can get rid of that damn ore patch in the way.

That said over the many years I have seen other players do it without a mess from square one even though it is a tedious process because you need way longer to set up everything even if you use blueprints and know where everything is going... simply because you need to space everything further apart already from the beginning... longer distances to cover, more (underground) belts, pipes and poles you need to craft, more space you need to clear of trees (and now also cliffs), etc, etc.

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by Guimdefreitas »

Kyralessa wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:20 pm
One way to handle this without necessarily having to completely demolish your main base is to create outposts accessible by train that focus on certain things you need, such as different kinds of science or various circuits.
Right now, that is my thought. I've done a redrawing of my current base and realized that even then it will not support what I need for the future. The gathering of materials and calculus of the needed materials is comencing so that I can set up the outposts in a manner that supports what I need.

I want to also thank all of you who have taken time to respond to a simple post by a newcomer like me. I hope to enjoy all of your wisdom in the near future as I approach the realization of the first rocket launch!

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by Serenity »

Have you discovered modules and beacons yet? They drastically cut down on the space you need later on. You can do one blue belt of green circuits for example with a handful of machines. Beaconed oil also hugely increases the output in almost the same footprint, whereas normally you'd need a ridiculous amount of refineries. So you can tear down larger builds like red and green circuits using construction robots and build something in same space that produces more than before. There are even builds that are designed from the start to take future beacons into account, but most of them don't maximize their use.

You can certainly go big instead, but what I like to do is to transition to beaconed builds in the main base and maybe aim for 100-150 science per minute. That lets me increase the science output a lot without needing any more space. The science builds themselves get 3 productivity module + 1 speed module to save resources. That way I only have the adjust the number of assemblers, but the layout stays the same.
Main base smelting can stay with coal as it is for now though. It's actually one of the least efficient uses of modules.

And you don't need that many mining outposts at that stage. 2-3 each for iron and copper are fine. Depends on their size. I still do production outposts after that to further increase production. But meanwhile science goes along at more than a snail's pace. And maybe more importantly I can produce a decent number of modules. Those are slow and expensive.

You need a lot of power for that though. So it's either nuclear or huge solar fields. But stamping down solar is a lot less work than expanding the production side of the factory


This does 100 science per minute + four module 3 assemblers and is still expandable. All in the same space as I started out with. Actually needs a lot less vertical space than before because the circuit builds are so compact:
Factory
I can then start transitioning to a train network base by moving green circuits and then other things to outposts and bring in materials per train instead.


That said, if you still haven't launched a rocket don't worry! You really don't need that much for that. It depends more on how long you want to wait for the rocket to build. Continuous rocket launches are a bit different

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by foamy »

Every damn time. Even more so in multiplayer when I have to deal with ten different people's ideas on where to build bootstrap base stuff :v

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by Blaine-O »

Yes. Much like a crab, I eventually outgrow my shell and shed it for a new one. I always see this coming and prepare by increasing production of things I think I'll need to get the new one started, from concrete and walls to belts and assemblers. Once the new base is functional, I scuttle the old one. I generally do this twice during a normal game: Once when moving from the first base to the "midgame base," and then once more when it's rocket time.

When I first started playing Factorio in 2016, I for some reason confined myself to a very small area and was constantly deconstructing and reconstructing just to produce different things within the same tier. I no longer do this, but it did help me to learn compact building and the value of not spewing out too much pollution to quickly.

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Re: Completely demolishing your factory because it doesn't seem to support everything you want.

Post by Bauer »

You managed to get to the rocket with you first base? That's a great success. Don't mind how your "laboratory" looks like.

A few bases later, you will have learnt how to make a base that is well dimensioned and that does about 1 science/second for all but space science, i.e. it brings you to the rocket and unlocks the science tree. But even then, if you want to enter the mega-base game, you will have to abandon that first base and restart. You'll very like have a few 1000' construction bots under your command by then. They'll take care of the old base in no time.

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