Blueprints should not be items

[Deitrix]

Sorry if this has been mentioned countless times before (or is already an option in the game), but I don't feel like blueprints or blueprint books should be items in the game at all. The blueprint library is all that's required. I can't see a use for having the blueprints in my inventory when I can quickly open up the library by pressing B. It just creates clutter and forces me to have to delete them from my inventory in favour of the ones from the library.

Same goes for the upgrade planner and destruction planner. These are usually things that I'll create and use once or twice and then delete from my inventory. Having the ability to create a temporary upgrade/destruction planner quickly (with filters), without it being placed in my inventory would be a welcome addition.

[ssilk]

I say that all the years...

Blueprint as an item makes not much sense. Blueprint book was a good idea, but why, why, why dis that also an item? It follows the logic from 5 years ago. But that makes no sense anymore.

Blueprint screen should imho work like the screen of a mobile phone.
The blueprints are the apps. A screen is one book and you can drag between the pages. A icon at the top gives an overview over all pages/books. Other icons for saving and loading of books.

[Rseding91]

If only you both knew the insane complexity, bugs, corrupt saves, and still the blueprint library is just a wrapper around the blueprints and books which are items.

The game has no concept of world<>cursor interaction outside of items. All cursor interaction is done as items with items. Because that's how everything is written. Every time you click anything in the blueprint library the game materializes it as an item so it can actually make sense of it and use it with everything. Then it throws that away when you clear your cursor.

It makes no sense to try to tear down the fully functional, heavily tested, and known working item logic when it works perfectly. I've managed to avoid using the blueprint library for my blueprint needs since its creation without a single problem. To want to stick *more* stuff into that broken spiderweb of logic just makes no sense to me.

[5thHorseman]

I've managed to avoid using the blueprint library for my blueprint needs since its creation without a single problem. To want to stick *more* stuff into that broken spiderweb of logic just makes no sense to me.

That's funny (in an interesting way, not a ha-ha way). I actually LOVE the blueprint library and from the moment it was implemented stopped using blueprints in my inventory.

I sometimes go so far as to take the books out of my library and put them in my quickbar, just so they're even easier to access. But filling my inventory with blueprints and then (gasp) losing them when I start a new save? *that* to me is broken logic.

I understand you see this from the other side, how horrible the code is to implement the blueprint library. But make no mistake: for many of us - when compared to blueprints-as-inventory-items is concerned - it's the hands-down winner for functionality and ease of use.

[ssilk]

I go with rseding: I never understood how this works as avoid using it. What is saved, what not, where can I reuse it, etc. it’s a UX mess.

To the points from him: well there is no complaint about how to use the blueprint with the surroundings. Keep the blueprints as item, no problem. The point is, that it should not be part of the “normal” player inventory.

Instead there should be an extra “blueprint inventory“, which is one step apart from the blueprint library. Similar to the current blueprint lib, but user friendly. You can put them still into the quick bar. You can put them still into a chest. Etc.

IMHO this would also resolve a lot of issues and because blueprints cannot appear in player inventory and don’t need interaction elsewhere (you can always take it out), it should be possible to delete some - now useless - code.

But that’s all guesses. :j

[5thHorseman]

Maybe I should record myself using my blueprints to see where the disconnect is between you guys and me, because it's so natural and easy to use Alt-B, but so clunky and ineffectual to use my inventory.

Maybe because I HATED blueprints in inventory so much, I put extra effort to learn the blueprint UI.

[ssilk]

Yes, that’s the point. I think the problem is, that there are currently two UIs for accessing blueprints. The inventory and the blueprint lib. It makes no sense to learn both. And so I keep going with the inventory, but it lacks functionality and is really hard to handle with a Mac trackpad (right mouseclick). But there is no real need to change that. So I keep complaining.

So - again - the solution is to remove one UI. Which is clearly that which has less features and make the blueprint lib easier to use. Which (again) should enable to remove some code, that is not needed, when blueprints cannot be accessed in an inventory.

And it’s clear that a lot people will begin to cry “uh, why did you remove that, it was so practical”, but in the long run it makes a lot sense. Well, my current opinion.

[tamanous]

So - again - the solution is to remove one UI. Which is clearly that which has less features and make the blueprint lib easier to use. Which (again) should enable to remove some code, that is not needed, when blueprints cannot be accessed in an inventory.

And it’s clear that a lot people will begin to cry “uh, why did you remove that, it was so practical”, but in the long run it makes a lot sense. Well, my current opinion.

+1

[Koub]

Since the very beginning, I disliked the "blueprint is an item" thing (when it had to be researched, and then crafted). Since then, many steps were done in what I felt was the right direction : - a new UI to manage blueprints (the BP library)
- unlocked from start
- BPs don't need to be crafted any more

In my eyes, the final - and mandatory - step in this long evolution could only be to push this logic to the end, totally get rid of the old model, and embrace the totally dematerialized blueprint concept, stored and managed bia the BP library UI.

Seen from outside, this seemed the perfect story. Sadly, I understand I was wrong, and I find this unfortunate.

[mmmPI]

But what about those :

https://mods.factorio.com/mods/DaveMcW/ ... blueprints
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/conman

making real good use of blueprint being item !

Having the blueprint as item allows for manipulating and storing blueprint directly in game, you can edit your blueprint "locally" to adapt it to mods or special settings of one particular map, while the library is where i stockpile a lot of them "for later studying" when joining servers.

Then I tend to prevent myself from editing on the library that acts as a back up isolated from any misclick on one particular game.

About the decon planner i find practical to have 2 of them, one that is configured only for trees and rock, and one that deconstruct everything.

i'm biaised because i like it this way, wanted to share why.

[ssilk]

Seen from outside, this seemed the perfect story. Sadly, I understand I was wrong, and I find this unfortunate.

? I don’t understand. First you embrace removing the bp. Then you where wrong and find it unfortunate?

making real good use of blueprint being item !

I would not change that. Blueprints are still items, but will not go into player inventory. There are some solutions:
A) manipulations can be made only in a new bp-inventory ; but in chests and other inventories bp are like simple items.
B) There is a new type of inventory: Bp’s can be stored only in special inventories. The can add a library chest in game for storing bps outside of the bp-inventory. Mods can use that for own stuff.

About the decon planner i find practical to have 2 of them, one that is configured only for trees and rock, and one that deconstruct everything.

Deconstruction- and upgrade planner is just another way of manipulating the world. Should be handled exactly as bp’s.

And you don’t loose this backup feature, the bp-lib is just extended by an inventory and the bp-items go in here instead of player inventory. It’s not more. (*) and because normal items cannot be in this inventory things might get simpler.

i'm biaised because i like it this way, wanted to share why.

Me too. that’s normal for such kind of changes: you have arranged in how it works. Humans are very flexible but don’t like change because it needs them to forget what they learned.

From my professional perspective the bp’s are an UX nightmare. This change would fix the biggest problem. And and then we’ll see.


(*) maybe this: the bp-inventory is not part of the bp-library, but is a fourth tab in the new middle-part of the player inventory.

[5thHorseman]

Seen from outside, this seemed the perfect story. Sadly, I understand I was wrong, and I find this unfortunate.

? I don’t understand. First you embrace removing the bp. Then you where wrong and find it unfortunate?

I believe the part found "wrong" was that what appears to (some of) us players to be a better direction in UI was actually going in worse and worse directions behind the scenes. We believed that this UI change would only continue, and now it appears that it will not. And that is unfortunate indeed.

[Koub]

Seen from outside, this seemed the perfect story. Sadly, I understand I was wrong, and I find this unfortunate.

? I don’t understand. First you embrace removing the bp. Then you where wrong and find it unfortunate?

I believe the part found "wrong" was that what appears to (some of) us players to be a better direction in UI was actually going in worse and worse directions behind the scenes. We believed that this UI change would only continue, and now it appears that it will not. And that is unfortunate indeed.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant .

[mysticdreamer76]

Couldn't you just create a new "blueprint" only inventory space, and store blueprints there, outside the normal inventory?
Then you don't break the system, and people get inventory-less blueprints.

[Rseding91]

Couldn't you just create a new "blueprint" only inventory space, and store blueprints there, outside the normal inventory?
Then you don't break the system, and people get inventory-less blueprints.

That's literally what a blueprint book is.

[mysticdreamer76]

Couldn't you just create a new "blueprint" only inventory space, and store blueprints there, outside the normal inventory?
Then you don't break the system, and people get inventory-less blueprints.

That's literally what a blueprint book is.

Above, you said the blueprint library was a wrapper. The blueprint book, and blueprints are actual items that go in your actual inventory. I think the OP wants them not to be items (thus not taking up valuable inventory space). I was just theorizing, that if you had a seperate/special inventory area for just blueprints, you could only access through the library, it wouldn't take up actual inventory space, and also would not change the way blueprints work "as items".

[5thHorseman]

Couldn't you just create a new "blueprint" only inventory space, and store blueprints there, outside the normal inventory?
Then you don't break the system, and people get inventory-less blueprints.

That's literally what a blueprint book is.

Above, you said the blueprint library was a wrapper. The blueprint book, and blueprints are actual items that go in your actual inventory. I think the OP wants them not to be items (thus not taking up valuable inventory space). I was just theorizing, that if you had a seperate/special inventory area for just blueprints, you could only access through the library, it wouldn't take up actual inventory space, and also would not change the way blueprints work "as items".

This is what alt-B is. it is an infinite space to store blueprints and blueprint books. It already exists.

The problem isn't that it doesn't exist, it's that it exists alongside those things also going into your inventory.

Though I've been watching Kitsch on YouTube and he also doesn't use Alt-B but instead uses his inventory (and quickbar) and I can see some of the benefit in that. Most of that benefit would be gained by quickbar blueprints being links to your blueprint inventory instead of your main inventory, though.

[ssilk]

doesn't exist, it's that it exists alongside those things also going into your inventory.

Though I've been watching Kitsch on YouTube and he also doesn't use Alt-B but instead uses his inventory (and quickbar) and I can see some of the benefit in that. Most of that benefit would be gained by quickbar blueprints being links to your blueprint inventory instead of your main inventory, though.

That’s the point: remove blueprints from inventory, but allow you put them into quickbar.

Sounds like a simple change? No, surely not, there is much to think about. But the first iteration would be to to remove the ability to put bp into inventory in any way, and I would be willing to test, if that works or if we forgot something.

[Kab00]

If only you both knew the insane complexity, bugs, corrupt saves, and still the blueprint library is just a wrapper around the blueprints and books which are items.

The game has no concept of world<>cursor interaction outside of items. All cursor interaction is done as items with items. Because that's how everything is written. Every time you click anything in the blueprint library the game materializes it as an item so it can actually make sense of it and use it with everything. Then it throws that away when you clear your cursor.

It makes no sense to try to tear down the fully functional, heavily tested, and known working item logic when it works perfectly. I've managed to avoid using the blueprint library for my blueprint needs since its creation without a single problem. To want to stick *more* stuff into that broken spiderweb of logic just makes no sense to me.

Would it be possible to make a setting that adds a feature that automatically deletes the item from your inventory and/or quickbar once it is out of the cursor? This would in fact make the blueprints easier to use. It is aggravating when i have 10 of my inventory slots taken up by blueprints. Or make the blueprint library like the player inventory but with modifications like access in all games. That way you wouldn't have to redo the hotbar. I don't code much but i do it enough to know that big changes are not easy.

(P.S: I am not online very often at all so if i don't reply that's why and sorry for the late reply.)

[Rseding91]

If only you both knew the insane complexity, bugs, corrupt saves, and still the blueprint library is just a wrapper around the blueprints and books which are items.

The game has no concept of world<>cursor interaction outside of items. All cursor interaction is done as items with items. Because that's how everything is written. Every time you click anything in the blueprint library the game materializes it as an item so it can actually make sense of it and use it with everything. Then it throws that away when you clear your cursor.

It makes no sense to try to tear down the fully functional, heavily tested, and known working item logic when it works perfectly. I've managed to avoid using the blueprint library for my blueprint needs since its creation without a single problem. To want to stick *more* stuff into that broken spiderweb of logic just makes no sense to me.

Would it be possible to make a setting that adds a feature that automatically deletes the item from your inventory and/or quickbar once it is out of the cursor? This would in fact make the blueprints easier to use. It is aggravating when i have 10 of my inventory slots taken up by blueprints. Or make the blueprint library like the player inventory but with modifications like access in all games. That way you wouldn't have to redo the hotbar. I don't code much but i do it enough to know that big changes are not easy.

(P.S: I am not online very often at all so if i don't reply that's why and sorry for the late reply.)

Unless you specifically click the blueprint or book into your inventory it already works that way.