"Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post your ideas and suggestions how to improve the game.
Post Reply
mrbaggins
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:08 am
Contact:

"Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by mrbaggins »

Drag-placing power poles is great. And there's clearly some extra functionality built in where they'll guarantee they power all items you drag under it's influence.

But, drag-placing powerpoles near or to connect to an existing power network doesn't work, as the code clearly does a check in the vein of "If new power pole can reach other power pole, don't place it"

However, 99% of players probably never have more than 1 power network, and if they do, the connection of those networks is not a problem, and actually probably the goal. Generally, the vast majority of cases would be that if dragging a new power line across, to or over an existing line, you want them to connect.

So, proposal: Power pole drag placing only checks whether it's too far from the last drag-placed power pole. It ignores other power poles entirely.

OR

It instead connects to existing power poles, then continues onward, resulting in a single network.

torne
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:54 am
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by torne »

mrbaggins wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:44 pm
Drag-placing power poles is great. And there's clearly some extra functionality built in where they'll guarantee they power all items you drag under it's influence.
That's not how it works - they don't guarantee that (for an example, try drag-placing large power poles). What it does is place them the maximum distance apart - it just happens that for small and medium poles this only leaves a small gap between each, which may be enough to power all items if the layout isn't too dense.

This is why it has the behaviour that it does while doing it near an existing power network. From experimentation it seems like the way it works is actually "if the *previous* square the mouse was over was connected to another pole, but the *current* square is not, then place the pole on the *previous* square". This logic makes going around corners/following terrain/etc very easy, because it will always place it in the most efficient spot (maximum range) even if the direction you're moving isn't straight. The behaviour you don't want is useful when building long distance power lines, as it means you can plop down a bunch of outpost blueprints (including their own power poles) and then just drag a line of big poles from the nearest source of power that goes somewhere near each of them, and if the most efficient way to connect it up is to let the power flow "through" an outpost's internal power poles it will just do that.

Sad_Brother
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:54 pm
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by Sad_Brother »

torne wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:30 pm
mrbaggins wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:44 pm
Drag-placing power poles is great. And there's clearly some extra functionality built in where they'll guarantee they power all items you drag under it's influence.
That's not how it works - they don't guarantee that (for an example, try drag-placing large power poles). What it does is place them the maximum distance apart - it just happens that for small and medium poles this only leaves a small gap between each, which may be enough to power all items if the layout isn't too dense.
Are you sure? Test it.

User avatar
5thHorseman
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 954
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:21 pm
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by 5thHorseman »

I'd hate this functionality.

It's not there to stop you from accidentally connecting 2 power networks. It's there to allow you to quickly place power poles that will power everything. Specifically, it will cause you to drop a power pole early if doing so will power something that won't be powered if you don't drop that pole.

I never care if that thing is powered by my current poles. I care if it's powered by anything.
Factorio For Beginners Come along with me as I detail (hopefully) every single thing you can do in Factorio with a focus on explaining to beginners, in a lighthearted, slow paced Let's Play style.

mrbaggins
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:08 am
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by mrbaggins »

It's not there to stop you from accidentally connecting 2 power networks. It's there to allow you to quickly place power poles that will power everything. Specifically, it will cause you to drop a power pole early if doing so will power something that won't be powered if you don't drop that pole.
That's my point though. I clearly want to power everything. But unless you START at a powered power pole, you can NEVER connect it to power if you're click-dragging.

User avatar
darkfrei
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2615
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:11 pm
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by darkfrei »

As a condition the game can use amount of wires on the previous electric pole. If it has only one connection, then power line cannot be ready, next pole must be placed.

torne
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:54 am
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by torne »

Sad_Brother wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:12 pm
torne wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:30 pm
That's not how it works - they don't guarantee that (for an example, try drag-placing large power poles). What it does is place them the maximum distance apart - it just happens that for small and medium poles this only leaves a small gap between each, which may be enough to power all items if the layout isn't too dense.
Are you sure? Test it.
I did test it before posting but I must have made a mistake, because testing it again now it clearly does consider both things (maximum range and non-covered entities). Thanks for the correction!

User avatar
Optera
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2607
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:41 am
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by Optera »

I tend to agree with the op. When I use drag on poles I want to create a line of poles with max spacing.
Since near poles constantly interfere with that I tend to make blueprints and stamp those down rather than ever dragging poles.

User avatar
leadraven
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:23 pm
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by leadraven »

I agree with OP.
Currently, if I'm making power line between two existing blocks, connectivity is not guaranteed.
When I'm using drag-placing, I want to make new power line ignoring existing poles.

BenSeidel
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 550
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:44 am
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by BenSeidel »

+1
This "feature" annoys me to no end. Just stop considering currently placed poles.

please!

mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 4050
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by mrvn »

When placing poles in a factory you probably want to power every entity. I never noticed that the game would check this, must not have used drag-placing in factories a lot. Nowadays I always use blueprints to build anything that repeats. E.g. build 2 furnaces with inserters and power pole, then copy&paste to make 24. Bluebuild to the rescue.

The other and probably far more used case is making overland power lines between outposts. You start on one side and drag-place till you hit the other side. Problem is the last power pole connecting the two networks is never placed. Any poles you pass will also disrupt the line.

I would like to propose a new algorithm for this use case:

1) A power pole is placed on the last tile that had connection to the previous pole.
2) A pole is also placed (early) on the last tile that would connect to a new network.


mrbaggins
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:08 am
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by mrbaggins »

Are bumps allowed? To my knowledge this has never been addressed.

If I have a vertical "bus" of power poles, and I'm dragging from an oil post horizontally, I want to connect to my bus of power. But the power line won't place if it's in range of ANY power pole.

It should either:

Only consider the line it is dragging from; or
Connect to any power network within the dragging line that it can connect to. Once connected, it will attempt the next placement at max range *from the now connected network*

PyroFire
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:18 am
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by PyroFire »

I don't see any posts from wube so,

This has been discussed in the past and if memory serves, this won't be done due to some technical reasons on how the pole dragging works.
But it would be really nice if it could be.
Oh well.
mrbaggins wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:44 pm
And there's clearly some extra functionality built in where they'll guarantee they power all items you drag under it's influence.
This only exists in your imagination, not in reality.
No such thing.
mrbaggins wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:44 pm
However, 99% of players probably never have more than 1 power network, and if they do, the connection of those networks is not a problem, and actually probably the goal. Generally, the vast majority of cases would be that if dragging a new power line across, to or over an existing line, you want them to connect.
Unless you use mods.
But generally, yes in vanilla you only need one power network, i think it's more ups friendly too.
mrbaggins wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:44 pm
So, proposal: Power pole drag placing only checks whether it's too far from the last drag-placed power pole. It ignores other power poles entirely.

OR

It instead connects to existing power poles, then continues onward, resulting in a single network.
I agree for either, the overlap when connecting a new line of power poles is annoying to work with, how it just stops placing poles.

But like i said this has been discussed in the past, give the search button a try i'm sure you'll find the answers.

User avatar
5thHorseman
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 954
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:21 pm
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by 5thHorseman »

PyroFire wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:21 am
mrbaggins wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:44 pm
And there's clearly some extra functionality built in where they'll guarantee they power all items you drag under it's influence.
This only exists in your imagination, not in reality.
No such thing.
No it exists. Place a pump and try to drag Medium Electric poles over it so as to not power it (so it falls in the cracks). The game will drop a power pole early to power the pump, even if the poles themselves are not currently being powered.

This does not work for big electric poles, as their use case is different than the medium ones. It does work for small poles. Substations don't matter as they have full coverage of their range.
factorio_powerpole.jpg
factorio_powerpole.jpg (523.38 KiB) Viewed 200 times
Factorio For Beginners Come along with me as I detail (hopefully) every single thing you can do in Factorio with a focus on explaining to beginners, in a lighthearted, slow paced Let's Play style.

PyroFire
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:18 am
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by PyroFire »

5thHorseman wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:10 am
factorio_powerpole.jpg
Ok that's just weird, this game is always evolving.
Well the more you know i guess.

Image

mrbaggins
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:08 am
Contact:

Re: "Drag-placing" power poles should ignore already built ones

Post by mrbaggins »

mrbaggins wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:44 pm
And there's clearly some extra functionality built in where they'll guarantee they power all items you drag under it's influence.
This only exists in your imagination, not in reality.
No such thing.
As already addressed by 5th horseman, as well as earlier in the thread.
mrbaggins wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:44 pm
However, 99% of players probably never have more than 1 power network, and if they do, the connection of those networks is not a problem, and actually probably the goal. Generally, the vast majority of cases would be that if dragging a new power line across, to or over an existing line, you want them to connect.
Unless you use mods.
Why would mods require separate networks?

Post Reply

Return to “Ideas and Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users