pY Alien Life - Discussion

[kingarthur]

Just move the technologies to the appropriate tier.

oh sure whatever was we thinking leaving those techs just hanging there and not properly requiring you to have unlocked everything first. how dare we miss a few that are not properly gated. we should just add it to the right tier after magically noticing it wasn't placed correctly right after we just balance all the machines and we just fix all the deadlocks and we just do a dozen other things.

i get it its annoying that it wasn't properly set in the right places in the tech tree. its not intended but there are hundreds of techs to keep track of. a few get misplaced. maybe they was never right or something got moved afterwords or something. its hard to say but we've already fixed several of these techs unlocking things in the wrong tier issues. just let us know and it'll get fixed.

TLDR: shit gets missed and this happened to be one of them and for some reason your the first one to report it that im aware of. im sorry it was an inconvenience but just simply let us know and we will sort it out.

[septemberWaves]

idk if this is intended or not but theres a decent number of times where you can unlock a recipe you can't actually utilize because you need some higher tier tech. Two examples off the top of my head are red science coke processing doesn't actually get you anything as you cannot craft the machine needed to use the better recipes the tech unlocks until you get some green science unlocks. The second one is ulrics. You can unlock ulrics at red science and from non PYAL runs ulrics are the main way to get bonemeal for green science as it is implied here. However to make your first ulric you need 2 alien sample, something that is not unlocked until you are well into green science. This can make the experience frustrating at times as I assume if I'm unlocking some kind of better recipe I will be able to make utilization of it without much extra work (maybe some same tech level research) but being locked out of using my new recipes until I get a whole new tier of science is such a pain, especially when I plan around the assumption that i can use these recipe until I find out I can't actually use them and have to replan my setup.

TLDR: some techs are useless for 20+ hours after you research them and its frustrating. Just move the technologies to the appropriate tier.

The best thing you can do in order to make this happen is actually make a comprehensive list of all of the issues you have found (rather than just a few examples "off the top of [your] head"). I am guessing you have never done much game balancing or debugging yourself, so for the sake of clarification: balancing a game (or mod, the same logic applies) well and keeping it bug-free are generally complicated tasks even for smaller projects; something as large as Pyanodon's collection of overhauls amplifies the complexity immensely. The reason things like this are missed is not deliberate, it happens because the project is huge and the complexity of maintaining a project increases far more quickly as the project itself gets bigger and more elaborate; things like this are missed because there is a lot to keep track of in development, so unless you provide an unambiguous list of all of the issues you have encountered, you cannot expect the devs to find and solve every single one of them immediately because the only reason they were missed in the first place is because there is already so much to keep track of.

TLDR: While bug reports are helpful, they are significantly less so if, when drawing attention to a commonly occurring issue (e.g. "some techs are useless when unlocked because of incorrect prerequisites"), you only provide a few specific examples of the issue occurring rather than listing every such example you encounter.

[Kino_]

Apparently my comment came off as more hostile than intended. Apologies if it came off as accusatory, I was just trying to point out that there were inconsistencies in the tech dependencies and didn't know if u were aware. Sorry for the trouble.

[Demosthenex]

Ok, so I'm only a few hours in. Our team has completed all red research... We have just started downloading and creating animals.

I can only say this is enchanting! What a novel way to model a research tree outside of the main tree, using in game items. This has been so satisfying to do!

Thank you Py and team for your creativity and dedication!

[septemberWaves]

Apparently my comment came off as more hostile than intended. Apologies if it came off as accusatory, I was just trying to point out that there were inconsistencies in the tech dependencies and didn't know if u were aware. Sorry for the trouble.

I do not think any hostility is assumed. The point is just that it is not especially useful to make a bug report without including all of the specific information you are aware of (this applies to anyone making bug reports; it seems to be fairly common for people to leave out details from their bug reports and be entirely confused about why the bugs will not be fixed quickly). Think of it from the perspective of a developer: if you find a group of related inconsistencies in the tech tree and report them but only mention a couple of examples instead of listing every single one you found, the developers have to spend hours going through the entire tech tree to locate any balance issues that you neglected to include; if you list every single one you found, you already know about them so there is no need for you to spend hours looking for them again, and the developers can go through your list and get straight to fixing the problems.

[miturion]

I am about 30 hours of playtime, so not that far in
But just here to say that it is great fun. There are a lot of choices to concentrate on as I am short of everything.
Great work on the mod!

[pyanodon]

appreciated :3

[razahin]

Just wanted to bring this to your attention.

I've been playing the entire PyMods suite with a friend and its been great fun. However, the most recent updates to the mods causes the game to crash when one of the players logs off. The mod seems to be trying to locate characters, and if it can't find both characters the crash happens. This is most notable on any save that had been played as multiplayer being loaded.

Below is a screen capture of the error.



Anyways, we've just got through Red Science automation in PyAL its been great fun. Thanks for all your hard work!

*EDIT*

So I snooped around a bit, and it seems like the simplest fix would be to do a nil check on the player's existence before trying to update the inventory.
I don't know exactly why play would carry an undefined player / character, but I did test this and it does work. Hope this helps.

[kingarthur]

Just wanted to bring this to your attention.

I've been playing the entire PyMods suite with a friend and its been great fun. However, the most recent updates to the mods causes the game to crash when one of the players logs off. The mod seems to be trying to locate characters, and if it can't find both characters the crash happens. This is most notable on any save that had been played as multiplayer being loaded.

Below is a screen capture of the error.



Anyways, we've just got through Red Science automation in PyAL its been great fun. Thanks for all your hard work!

ok im looking into and in the short term you can go into the control.lua and remove the section starting at

Code: Select all

script.on_nth_tick(30, function()

if you want it to work before i get a release for a fix out later

[razahin]

Thanks for the quick response. I wasn't expecting one so fast so I had edited my initial post with some initial investigation results before seeing your post.

[kingarthur]

Thanks for the quick response. I wasn't expecting one so fast so I had edited my initial post with some initial investigation results before seeing your post.

well ya that works to. and is what i already added as a fix to the code. the problem is in a multiplayer game it keeps a reference to every player thats joined the game so you can do things like kick them or ban/ un-ban them. that wouldnt work very well if it didnt keep track. character on the other hand is the actual character on the screen in the game and thats removed anytime a player isnt active in the game. i forgot to account for that issue with multiplayer or god mode not having a character when pyanodon was ready for a release earlier.

[mathiaszealot]

A couple of low science level oddities I noticed, that might help expand on someone else's commentary:

Bhoddos are unlocked with Automation Science, but the initial Mk 1 craft in the nursery requires Alien Sample (tier 2), which is Logistics science. Given Bhoddos are not used for anything before Logistics Science, it would probably be best to change the unlocking tech (technology-name: bhoddos) to Logistics science.

Sea Sponge and Xyhiphoe unlocked in Water invertebrates stage 1 (Automation Science). The initial craft of Sea Sponge again takes Alien Sample (tier 2), while Xhyiphoe take Fetal Serum, which requires Silver Plates, which is Lead Processing 2 (not to mention the Xyhiphoe Codex takes Logistics science). Given the Sea Sponge does actually have a use before Logistics science, if niche, I'd suggest dropping the Alien Sample in recipe sea-sponge to Alien Sample (tier 1) so that the tech Water Invertebrates stage 1 unlocks something.

I was going to include Ulrics in this group, but looking at the tech now, it seems to have already been changed since I unlocked them earlier in the playthrough.

Enjoying the mods a lot. Will be breaking out the mall and trains soon.

[mrbaggins]

So I updated from 17 to 18 a week ago, and added this to a full pysuite.

I now have multiple versions of a LOT of items. And the old versions almost always don't work as they are null items. Worse, the assemblers for them can still use those recipes.

Eg: fertilizer. Old fertiliser can't be used by anything, but can still be created

In a less annoying way, all the pre existing alien stuff like ralesia farms and kicalk plantations now have two versions as well. This is both a pro and a con: old machines have faster speeds but less module slots. Some seem to semi-update when picked up and replaced, flashing the "missing plant" icon, while others are clearly two completely separate items.

Weirdly, I can sometimes copy paste old recipes on to old versions of machines, but can't choose them in the selector.

In short: is there a reason there wasn't a conversion run? All old ralesias turn into ralesia mk 1 for example? And likewise all the machines.

[kingarthur]

So I updated from 17 to 18 a week ago, and added this to a full pysuite.

I now have multiple versions of a LOT of items. And the old versions almost always don't work as they are null items. Worse, the assemblers for them can still use those recipes.

Eg: fertilizer. Old fertiliser can't be used by anything, but can still be created

In a less annoying way, all the pre existing alien stuff like ralesia farms and kicalk plantations now have two versions as well. This is both a pro and a con: old machines have faster speeds but less module slots. Some seem to semi-update when picked up and replaced, flashing the "missing plant" icon, while others are clearly two completely separate items.

Weirdly, I can sometimes copy paste old recipes on to old versions of machines, but can't choose them in the selector.

In short: is there a reason there wasn't a conversion run? All old ralesias turn into ralesia mk 1 for example? And likewise all the machines.

because the amount of things that have been changed makes adding it to a running game a really bad idea and therefore setting up a migration file to fix all of the problems thats going to result in just is not something i wanted to spend time dealing with while working on everything else.

[Pridesfall]

Well I noticed a funny bug in my game today. In the production window when I look at what's been made in the life of my whole base, it shows I've produced 141G moondrop and consumed 13k. That is, 31M/min produced vs 3.0/min consumed. It isn't breaking anything and only shows crazy high numbers if I look an hour or more back.

p.s. As I typed this it went up to 146G produced.

[mrbaggins]

In short: is there a reason there wasn't a conversion run? All old ralesias turn into ralesia mk 1 for example? And likewise all the machines.

because the amount of things that have been changed makes adding it to a running game a really bad idea and therefore setting up a migration file to fix all of the problems thats going to result in just is not something i wanted to spend time dealing with while working on everything else.

Fair enough. Guess I've been spoiled with Angels/ Bobs where those migrations have been in place.

It suggests though that now there is a LOT of recipes kept but disabled in various parts. These are going to be a huge burder on load times aren't they?

[kingarthur]

In short: is there a reason there wasn't a conversion run? All old ralesias turn into ralesia mk 1 for example? And likewise all the machines.

because the amount of things that have been changed makes adding it to a running game a really bad idea and therefore setting up a migration file to fix all of the problems thats going to result in just is not something i wanted to spend time dealing with while working on everything else.

Fair enough. Guess I've been spoiled with Angels/ Bobs where those migrations have been in place.

It suggests though that now there is a LOT of recipes kept but disabled in various parts. These are going to be a huge burder on load times aren't they?

no. they are very few compared to the total and they are already loaded so all removing them would do is add extra stuff to process which would just increase the insignificant amount of time they add to the loading process. even if i removed every unneeded recipe and item you wouldnt save any time as loading it in is one process and removing it is a separate process.

[vamaelo]

error.png (75.78 KiB) Viewed 5796 times

I got this error after placing a caravan outpost depot, placing a caravan, selecting it with the auog control device, choosing the depot for Route Start, and waiting. The error pops as soon as the caravan reaches the depot.

[esso23]

Well I noticed a funny bug in my game today. In the production window when I look at what's been made in the life of my whole base, it shows I've produced 141G moondrop and consumed 13k. That is, 31M/min produced vs 3.0/min consumed. It isn't breaking anything and only shows crazy high numbers if I look an hour or more back.

p.s. As I typed this it went up to 146G produced.

This happened to me aswell. Not sure what causes it.
EDIT: Adding a screenshot. It must have been introduced in a recent update, because it wasn't happening before.

Screenshot 2020-03-17 14.21.13.png (3.54 MiB) Viewed 5759 times

[mrbaggins]

It suggests though that now there is a LOT of recipes kept but disabled in various parts. These are going to be a huge burder on load times aren't they?

no. they are very few compared to the total and they are already loaded so all removing them would do is add extra stuff to process which would just increase the insignificant amount of time they add to the loading process. even if i removed every unneeded recipe and item you wouldnt save any time as loading it in is one process and removing it is a separate process.

How can having them removed result in them "already being loaded"? I mean, the first run would be slower as it removes them, but every run after that isn't going to put them in to take them out...