Guide to pY: LTN and misc tips

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mxpal
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Guide to pY: LTN and misc tips

Post by mxpal »

Background
pY is a very complicated mod series. It requires you to play completely different from vanilla, or Angels and Bobs. To progress in game, the next item in chain usually requires every product that you have made previously in the chain, instead of just the end product from the previous chain. Certain production chains have feedback loop, for example for a recipe of A -> B + C with B as the main product and C as waste, there exist a recipe of C -> A to loop back along the chain. And also there is C -> XYZ which means its used in a completely different product chain. These together makes arranging belts and calculating factory ratios very difficult. The sheer amount of technology and recipes are mindblowing. This will not be your ordinary playthrough, this will be a lifetime achievement. Expect many hundreds of hours of gameplay.


pY Mod series
Do not start with the whole suite installed in your first play. You will be overwhelmed by the number of technology and recipes immediately. Try the beginners pack first to see whether you are up for the challenge.


Beginners pack:
  • pY Industry - A utility mod that gives you various storehouses and tanks for better logistic management.

    pY Coal Processing - First major mod of the series, it has a very large amount of content that is ideal for testing your mettle.

    pY Fusion - A small semi end game mod that contains fusion power plant as a high end power solution and several other materials.


Intermediate pack:
  • pY Petroleum Handling - A relatively small mod that gives lengthened chains in oil handling.

    pY Raw ores - A large mod with complicated ore processing.


Ultimate challenge pack:
  • pY Hightech - The essence of the whole series. Makes science packs and circuits extremely difficult. This mod is the
    reason why you are here.

    pY AlienLife - The latest mod that introduce an interestingly creative mechanic in farming biological products. Very large and complex.

Additional Mods
This daunting marathon justifies the use of many assisting mods.


Necessary:
  • Logistic Train network (LTN) - Automatically setup train transport tasks that work like cargo bots.

    Helmod - A planning mod that calculate factory ratios.

    What is it really used for / FNEI - A handy wiki of your in game items and recipes.

Highly Recommended:
  • LTN Tracker_2 - A GUI for your LTN. Has alert records for debugging your network and inventory lists.

    Bobs Inserters - Extremely versatile tool for modifying your inserters. Changes inserter range and loading direction.

    Loaders Redux - A two square long inserter that is exactly as fast as a belt.

    Aircraft / Teleporter - Allows rapid travel. Your base will be too big and complex to travel on foot/car.


Recommended:
  • Squeak Through - Allows you to squeak through buildings. Ease your annoyance of being stuck a lot.

    Py Quick start - Skip the boring part of digging and cutting your way through early game.

    Far Reach - Reach as far as you can see. Saves you a lot of meaningless walking.

    Water bomb / Stone water well - Get water anywhere if you think water handling does not worth your attention.

Train grid design
picture


You cant simply main bus/spaghetti your way up here. You will eventually be stuck somewhere and painfully realize you cannot belt your previous products out to the next chain from that mess you built. Making a train grid is probably the only way to win this game.
I use the simplest two lane system with an un-deadlockable roundabout. The simple circle only allows one train in it at a time but allows travel in any direction. The crossroad version does not allow U turn but several trains can use it at the same time as long as the courses do not intersect. This system may not have a high traffic capability, but the increased stack size of pY items are more than enough to offset this.



simple circular roundabout


crossroad roundabout


Station design
picture
As for train stop design, the most simple provide and requester stops in the official thread are enough for the task. I put two stops in the same lane for compactness while separating solid and fluid due to the provide/request threshold difference. My threshold for solid is 2000 while fluid is 20000. The request number for solid is 3000 and fluid is 24000. A 3000L tank is perfect for this, due to the overflow and underflow valve has a threshold of 80%, which is exactly 24000, and each fluid wagon holds 25000. You can tweak those numbers later when you have higher productivity. One wagon for each solid train and two wagons for each fluid train would be enough.

Note in the picture that you can use two filter inserters for loading two different items onto the same lane (if you have bobs inserters installed), and dont forget to put the factory requiring many types of input right next to the warehouse to save belting them out one by one.

picture

The depots have a trash unloading system that will remove any leftover items in the train should any error occurs. The trains will stay deactivated during unload.
Last edited by mxpal on Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

mxpal
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Re: Guide to pY: LTN and misc tips

Post by mxpal »

Tips
  • You can mine quartz and borax with the crystal mine
  • Store the waste resources, you will need them one day.
  • Tailings can be processed into benzene and aromatics, and aromatics into olefin. Both can be burnt to generate a good deal of power.
  • The farm and paddock in AlienLife is very slow by default. You need to use creature chamber/botanical nursery to generate the first lifeform and use it as a module in the farms.
  • In Helmod, the matrix solver (the rightmost gear icon on the topleft icon list) is your friend in planning chains with feedback/split paths.
py Industry Items - by theblindironman
  • The Gas Vent and tailing pond used for disposing of unwanted gases.
  • The sinkhole is used for disposing of unwanted liquids.
  • The burner is used for disposing of unwanted solids.
  • The underflow valve is useful when wanting to prioritize the use of one fluid source over another.
  • The overflow valve is useful to store a fluid but dump excess when you have too much.
  • The check valve is useful to prevent back flow into unwanted storage systems(a pump also acts as a check valve).
Tips by ShadowGlass
  • Factory Planner is a possible alternative to Helmod.
  • Shuttle Train Continued can be used to get around quickly in a large train grid.
  • LTN Combinator is a small mod that puts some user friendly GUI on top of a constant combinator to make setting up LTN stops easier.
  • Overflow and Underflow valves work much better with storage tanks due to fluctuation and leakage in pipes. Pumps has a higher throughput if the source is a tank too.
Last edited by mxpal on Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:35 am, edited 3 times in total.

twan
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Re: Guide to pY: LTN and misc tips

Post by twan »

No mall? Hmm, I just have a giant mall. Don't have time to handcraft every building. My mall is about the size of my iron/copper smelting lines. Makes everything up to mk2 models. Some select stuff even higher.
I've just put sane amount limits on every building.

and then I use blueprint chest request mod to collect massive blueprints into a requester chest at quantities that I can select. (eg. a 5x modifier etc). This loads into a building train that I can take to drive to my new location to plop down the blueprints, and wait for the bots I bring along to place the blueprint(s)

I've spent about 600h in my game, so I tend to come up with such "time-savers" in long games (that I probably spent days on designing :D )

mxpal
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Re: Guide to pY: LTN and misc tips

Post by mxpal »

twan wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:38 pm
No mall? Hmm, I just have a giant mall. Don't have time to handcraft every building. My mall is about the size of my iron/copper smelting lines. Makes everything up to mk2 models. Some select stuff even higher.
I've just put sane amount limits on every building.

and then I use blueprint chest request mod to collect massive blueprints into a requester chest at quantities that I can select. (eg. a 5x modifier etc). This loads into a building train that I can take to drive to my new location to plop down the blueprints, and wait for the bots I bring along to place the blueprint(s)

I've spent about 600h in my game, so I tend to come up with such "time-savers" in long games (that I probably spent days on designing :D )
yes i have heard quite a number of people has a mall of everything. i may remove that line if more mall people show up.
ah and because i use crafting speed mod, so i dont have time problem when handcrafting everything.

error0664
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Re: Guide to pY: LTN and misc tips

Post by error0664 »

i think: to mall or not to mall depends on your playstyle and of course the mods you are using

if you play with long reach and some kind of handcraft speed (research or mod,...) you can just handcraft buildings on demand with no issue
it will become tricky if you do not play with these as the amount of raw ingredients is really ramping up on some buildings so you will run into not having all the mats on hand and go to different depots or a central depot (which you could then use as a mall..)

even if it is a big mall - i like to have a mall for each and every building also in py. consider only 1 stack of each and some regulary used buildings set to 2 stacks as it is a very big ressource sink if you dont strict limit

tip:
in PY (industry) you get access to (py) logistic bots 1 quite early (red+green; circ1) which i recommend to build a bot-based mall rather than anything else with belts

even if you play with long reach - it is very convenient to reach for a stack of 'building' rather than have all the raw mats in you backpack

theblindironman
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Re: Guide to pY: LTN and misc tips

Post by theblindironman »

tips (cont.)
py Industry Items
The Gas Vent and tailing pond used for disposing of unwanted gases.
The sinkhole is used for disposing of unwanted liquids.
The burner is used for disposing of unwanted solids.
The underflow valve is useful when wanting to prioritize the use of one fluid source over another.
The overflow valve is useful to store a fluid but dump excess when you have too much.
The check valve is useful to prevent back flow into unwanted storage systems(a pump also acts as a check valve).

ShadowGlass
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Re: Guide to pY: LTN and misc tips

Post by ShadowGlass »

mxpal wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:49 am
  • Dont bother with a mall of everything, there are too many buildings to justify that. Just make the basics like gears and small parts, or the basic buildings in coal processing if you so wish.
Hard disagree. Don't hand craft anything you don't have to (which is mostly circuit 1s at the beginning). But as others have said it depends on your preferences/style. I wouldn't put "No Mall" as an advice specific to PyMods for sure.

Some other thoughts:
  • I've started to use the Factory Planner mod recently, it's basically Helmod, but with better UI. So far I like it better, but I haven't used it for too long, so we'll see.
  • If you have a large train grid, then the Shuttle Train Continued mod is also very useful to get around the base.
  • LTN Combinator mod is a small mod that puts some user friendly GUI on top of a constant combinator to make setting up LTN stops easier.
  • Overflow and Underflow valves work much better with storage tanks: For overflow valve the source should be a storage tank, for underflow valve the destination should be a storage tank. Fluids fluctuate in pipes, so if you put these valves pipe-to-pipe, they'll end up "leaking", wasting some fluids, especially if the valve is close to some machine outputting the fluid. Pumps also generally provide better throughput if the source is a storage tank.

mrbaggins
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Re: Guide to pY: LTN and misc tips

Post by mrbaggins »

"LTN is necessary"

Laughs in 800 trains, no LTN, no logistics bots, 250hrs Production science finished.

mxpal
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Re: Guide to pY: LTN and misc tips

Post by mxpal »

mrbaggins wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:02 am
"LTN is necessary"

Laughs in 800 trains, no LTN, no logistics bots, 250hrs Production science finished.
yes i know there are many superhuman out there that can do crazy stuff. not using LTN in pY is like playing factorio with one hand, thats possible but i would still call LTN necessary :lol:

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