Development and Discussion

[Molay]

Good point about the oxygen to make solder.

Solder is likely the first recipe a new player uses Angel's refining for, and it's perhaps a tad too complex for a starting one? Requires fluid in and output, and two types of ingots to melt. Seems like a bit of a jump ahead of the progression curve, if new player experience is relevant to AB. Imo there should be an easier entry point into the angel refining mechanics. Requiring resin for solder seemed punishing enough imo, but still more convenient and might lead to further delay of exploring Angel's refining. My favorite approach to guiding players to refining would be: use the very expensive steel recipe. 10x iron plates as we had. And along with the research for refining (blast furnace, induction and casting tech) add the steel recipe to that tech. This would be obvious enough to get people transitioning to refining for steel, which is required for further refining machines anyway. Perhaps the tech could have a description or be renamed to properly reflect the intent of significantly better steel creation. The current way of making early steel is a bit too efficient while sidestepping the desired effect of getting people to use Angel's refining - I'd prefer a very simple and ineffective early steel recipe instead. Maybe I'm an outlier but I sidestep early Angel's refining until I have at least green science level (which turns ore into pellets) researched; is that the desired way for players to go? I think it would be nice overall if Angel's refining was incentivised over straight crushing -> smelting up to finishing green techs. Unless I'm forgetting something you need neither tin nor lead to set up Angel's refining machines (all basic boards with just copper), so maybe the direct crush->smelt recipes for tin and lead could be disabled, getting the player to set up Angel's refining before even advancing into green science. At that point I think it would be okay to keep the old solder recipe around for player choice, though it's likely a player who has to make tin and lead via blast furnaces will opt for the Angel's refining recipe on his own. He's now naturally using oxygen for steel already, and making tin and lead ingots for his plates. The jump to solder is tiny and natural at this point.

[mrvn]

Orzelek while you're here! Could there be a setting to also generate starting patches of juvolite and crotinium (yellow/white)? It's something I specifically would like when playing RSO because I go for very sparse ore generation (increased region size, decreased chance) but with higher infinity portions and higher ore richness. I can often drive 2 minutes in each direction without hitting those two kinds of ore. I like the idea of outposts being far and rare. But I'd like the option to have all types before undertaking major exploration.

They shouldn't be needed early game (similar to uranium). It could indeed be an idea to add a setting to allow them into the starting area (RSO?).

While you don't need them to start you still need them fairly quickly in the game. And you can always use them even earlier to balance or improve production. Very much unlike uranium that you don't need at all I think or oil which comes much later.

The simple division of starting area vs. not starting area is to black & white. With RSO there should be tires of resources. Juvolite and crotinium would be tire 1 resources and should be outside the small starting area but maybe inside the large starting area (for distance comparison). Oil / gas would be tire 2 and uranium tire 3.

[canisdirusleidy]

What about a burner flare stack? Could that work as an initial help?

Well, when I wrote about "lower tier", I kept in mind the old chimney stalks with natural draft and complete lack of any air filtering. But between them and burner flare stack, from a game mechanics point of view, there is not much difference. Something that can to get rid of gaseous byproducts at early stages, but ineffective enough so that later the player wants to replace it with something better.

[Dregre]

Thermal water is used a lot for refining, so I'm not sure if we need to tweak it, it didn't feel out of wack if I recalled without RSO. Without RSO, gas wells where generating about 2.5K and 3K respectivly on almost all test worlds I've loaded. We could always fine tune it a bit more, but a goal of 50:50 doesn't feel natural anyway? At least it's not 250K+ yields...

Fair enough, then I wont bother with thermal water. I'll still see if I can find out why RSO still ramps up the gas amounts so much though.

[danyax]

Good point about the oxygen to make solder.

Solder is likely the first recipe a new player uses Angel's refining for, and it's perhaps a tad too complex for a starting one? Requires fluid in and output, and two types of ingots to melt. Seems like a bit of a jump ahead of the progression curve, if new player experience is relevant to AB. Imo there should be an easier entry point into the angel refining mechanics. Requiring resin for solder seemed punishing enough imo, but still more convenient and might lead to further delay of exploring Angel's refining. My favorite approach to guiding players to refining would be: use the very expensive steel recipe. 10x iron plates as we had. And along with the research for refining (blast furnace, induction and casting tech) add the steel recipe to that tech. This would be obvious enough to get people transitioning to refining for steel, which is required for further refining machines anyway. Perhaps the tech could have a description or be renamed to properly reflect the intent of significantly better steel creation. The current way of making early steel is a bit too efficient while sidestepping the desired effect of getting people to use Angel's refining - I'd prefer a very simple and ineffective early steel recipe instead. Maybe I'm an outlier but I sidestep early Angel's refining until I have at least green science level (which turns ore into pellets) researched; is that the desired way for players to go? I think it would be nice overall if Angel's refining was incentivised over straight crushing -> smelting up to finishing green techs. Unless I'm forgetting something you need neither tin nor lead to set up Angel's refining machines (all basic boards with just copper), so maybe the direct crush->smelt recipes for tin and lead could be disabled, getting the player to set up Angel's refining before even advancing into green science. At that point I think it would be okay to keep the old solder recipe around for player choice, though it's likely a player who has to make tin and lead via blast furnaces will opt for the Angel's refining recipe on his own. He's now naturally using oxygen for steel already, and making tin and lead ingots for his plates. The jump to solder is tiny and natural at this point.

I think Angels solder smelting complexity is completely fine regarding overall A&B complexity. I play with 10,000 tech multiple and expensive recipes and all staff looks very balanced. In all my playthroughs I always self restrict from using simple bob recipes - solder from resin, resin from wood, plastic from wood created from greenhouses. In this way getting to electronic circuits and red circuits require research of solder smelting and full research of resin from petrochem. But progression even with very high tech multiplier looks balanced and rewarding.

Flare stack now is available earlier than it used to be. Still a green tech, but available right after red one. Placing few dozen small tanks do the trick despite the fact that I use 10x price multiplier for buildings and have hundreds of them. And one would anyway need that sulfur dioxide gas to prime sulfur acid cycle for mineral catalyst production

Overall I would not presume that A&B players need soft learning curve. People typically tries A&B after completing vanilla game, so fluid handling should not be a issue for them

Electronic circuits are needed just for building, so you need not many of them

Bob new steel recipe (with Oxygen) is not well aligned with Angels, I always use option to use old recipe.

On expensive mode steel costs 8 iron plates, Angel smelting brings this to 4 - good step up in efficiency. For normal mode the balance (5 -> 4) is probably need to be adjusted.

The is old problem in normal mode is that direct crushed ore smelting is very efficient vs Angel ore sorting/smelting. On expensive mode the balance is perfect - saphirite ore sorting + direct smelting iron ore has same efficiency as direct smelting of crushed saphirite, but you get 50% of copper which is big bonus. Moreover, stiralite ore is harder to mine, and ore sorting allows you to avoid/reduce use of stiralite. Going to smelting/casting further increase efficiency by 33%. If expensive mode ratios could be somehow mirrored to normal mode, it would create better incentive to go casting route for normal recipes play.

[Molay]

I've never played in expensive mode, but the differences you mention sound, to me, a good baseline for regular mode. I'd like to see Angel's smelting become useful earlier.

You're probably right on all points, AB should probably not focus too much on ease of entry for new players. Complexity is it's main appeal ultimately.

While you're right that it's easy enough to progress as it is, particularly for veterans, I still think something could be done concerning the flare stack. Perhaps just pushing it down to red tech, while maintaining the need to require solder before being able to craft it, would be a nice middle place. So the processes of making solder and steel can be fully automated right after setting them up. We get water voiding early too, I think unlocking gas voiding early would feel better with the new requirements. Pushing the flare stack down to red tech seems preferable over adding a new early entity. It's all just minor nitpick and annoyances though; you can progress just fine now, it's just a tad more annoying than I'd like.

[Termak]

Hydrogen fuel value is way too high if it indeed is 2.7MJ, not sure what kinda maths you did to count the values for the Angel fluids from Bobs.
IRL hydrogen gives under one third compared to methane afaik and Bob tuned it way down since you can make it so easily in electrolyzer.

[danyax]

While you're right that it's easy enough to progress as it is, particularly for veterans, I still think something could be done concerning the flare stack. Perhaps just pushing it down to red tech, while maintaining the need to require solder before being able to craft it, would be a nice middle place. So the processes of making solder and steel can be fully automated right after setting them up. We get water voiding early too, I think unlocking gas voiding early would feel better with the new requirements. Pushing the flare stack down to red tech seems preferable over adding a new early entity. It's all just minor nitpick and annoyances though; you can progress just fine now, it's just a tad more annoying than I'd like.

This might be a viable approach, but I would like to point that water void is really mandatory on red science level or you can't automate wood production through Angel Bio mod (you need mud from washing). Gas venting is needed only for solder if one keeps using old oxygen-free steel recipe. If steel recipe will require oxygen then surely having red-level gas venting is a must.

[danyax]

I've never played in expensive mode, but the differences you mention sound, to me, a good baseline for regular mode. I'd like to see Angel's smelting become useful earlier.

I think the entire design philosophy of A&B game should be that duplicate Bob recipes should be kept as early but very inefficient duplicate of Angel ones, if this blocks progression, or be disabled at all, if this does not block progression. For example, resin from wood allows to bypass entire petrochem resin chain.

For example, this approach could be enable in mod options.

[Termak]

On normal mode smelting crushed sapphirite (iron) and stiratite (copper) give double yields compared to bobmonium(tin) and rubyte(lead), on expensive mode all have the same yields afaik. I dont know why exactly the saph/stira give double yields, maybe to make starting easier, but it diminishes the power or sorting and using blast furnaces a lot until more advanced smelting recipes come available.

[Mecejide]

I have a few suggestions:
1. Replace fluorite ore in jivolite sorting with lead, remove fluorite ore from the uranium & thorium crystallization recipe, and remove the pure fluorite ore sorting recipe, and add a recipe to make it from a crystal catalyst & crystal seedling.
2. Change the orange alien alloy to be made from molten orange alien alloy, which is made from steel ingots and orange alien artifacts.

[valneq]

Has anyone had other gardens than swamp gardens spawn? As for the trees, I have about 10 desert, 10 temperate and 20 swamp trees. As I would expect, starting in a swamp. But as I ventured into other biomes, I only found other trees, not other gardens. Could well just be how it generated, but it's odd to find so many desert/temperate trees and not a single garden. Are they spawning at all for other people?

So I decided to dive a bit into this topic – somebody else was asking a similar question some time ago. Then, it was specifically about temperate gardens not spawning. At that time, I had answered that I vaguely remembered having found all types of gardens on a 0.17 map. Plus that I was suspecting alien biomes to be interfering with the distribution of dry vs. humid areas, leading to a reduced number of temperate gardens. However, I don't have that save anymore, and I don't fully trust my memory. On that front I would say: "No save file – didn't happen." Now that other people see similarly strange things, maybe it is time to investigate.

I am on Factorio 0.18.6, I deactivated all mods except for Angel's Bioprocessing 0.7.2 (ands its dependencies). I generated a new map with default terrain settings, map exchange string:

Code: Select all

>>>eNpjYBBiYGMAgwZ7EObmS8xLT80p1k3LLC4uLUqFiYOwEFQqL7Gk
tCgxRzc9sRhZmhsqnV+UaohD3AiHuDEOcRNkcZbk/MQcZAHO5KLSlFT
d/EwUUa7UvNTcSt2kxGIUx7OWFKWmoroX6Im8zNJckEXI4gyMazfWbG
9okWMA4f/1DAr//4MwkPUAGE4gzMDYAFEJFIMB1uSczLQ0BgYFRyB2A
kkzMjJWi6xzf1g1xZ4RokbPAcr4ABU5kAQT8YQx/BxwSqnAGCZI5hiD
wWckBsTSEqAVUFUcDggGRLIFJMnI2Pt264Lvxy7YMf5Z+fGSb1KCPaO
hq8i7D0br7ICS7CB/MsGJWTNBYCfMKwwwMx/YQ6Vu2jOePQMCb+wZWU
E6RECEgwWQOODNzMAowAdkLegBEgoyDDCn2cGMEXFgTAODbzCfPIYxL
tuj+wMYEDYgw+VAxAkQAbYQ7jJGCNOh34HRQR4mK4lQAtRvxIDshhSE
D0/CrD2MZD+aQzAjAtkfaCIqDliigQtkYQqceMEMdw0wPC+ww3gO8x0
YmUEMkKovQDEIDyQDMwpCCzgwMyAAMFnYRGxaCQDWJLyH<<<

I loaded it up in the editor and executed these two scripts, one for revealing (and generating) a large area:

Code: Select all

local radius = 5000
local surface = game.player.surface
local my_area  = {{-radius,-radius}, {radius, radius}}
game.player.force.chart(game.player.surface, my_area)

and one for counting the number of different trees and gardens:

Code: Select all

local radius = 5000
local surface = game.player.surface
local my_area  = {{-radius,-radius}, {radius, radius}}
local regular_trees = surface.count_entities_filtered{area = my_area, type = 'tree'}
local temperate_trees = surface.count_entities_filtered{area = my_area, name = 'temperate-tree'}
local desert_trees = surface.count_entities_filtered{area = my_area, name = 'desert-tree'}
local swamp_trees = surface.count_entities_filtered{area = my_area, name = 'swamp-tree'}
local temperate_gardens = surface.count_entities_filtered{area = my_area, name = 'temperate-garden'}
local desert_gardens = surface.count_entities_filtered{area = my_area, name = 'desert-garden'}
local swamp_gardens = surface.count_entities_filtered{area = my_area, name = 'swamp-garden'}
game.print('Regular trees: ' .. regular_trees)
game.print('Temperate trees: ' .. temperate_trees)
game.print('Desert trees: ' .. desert_trees)
game.print('Swamp trees: ' .. swamp_trees)
game.print('Temperate gardens: ' .. temperate_gardens)
game.print('Desert gardens: ' .. desert_gardens)
game.print('Swamp gardens: ' .. swamp_gardens)

Note that it takes some time to generate so large an area, so you will need to wait in between executing the two scripts.
Also, I am new to scripting in Factorio, there is possibly better ways to do that, but it worked for me.

The results I get is:

Regular trees: 2125091
Temperate trees: 139
Desert trees: 246
Swamp trees: 97
Temperate gardens: 0
Desert gardens: 277
Swamp gardens: 90

I only count the regular trees to give people an idea how large this area is.

The first thing you realize is that the different types show different counts, with trees being roughly equal to gardens (with one exception, see below). But this is expected since even on this large an area you still have quite a variance in moisture. In my case, I have large deserts on the map, which is neatly captured by the large number of desert trees and gardens. But there is still a reasonable number of temperate and swamp trees, which also fits the general moisture distribution on this map.
This indicates that trees are reasonably sampling the terrain, which fits the expectation of any player.

Gardens should also sample the terrain, however the most striking feature in the above numbers is the total absence of temperate gardens. I was looking for them manually, they really are not there. I even placed a temperate garden manually and ran the counting script again, now it counted 1 temperate garden. This hints towards a bug in the generation of temperate gardens. If gardens were really random, their ratio should be similar to the ratio of the trees – representing the overall moisture on the terrain, with some variation due to map generation randomness. But zero!?

Can other people, especially the current maintainers, please confirm my findings? Do I have a typo in my script? If the current version of Angel's Bioprocessing really does not spawn temperate gardens, the only way to get them is the new garden mutations, which is locked behind nuclear tech. And I don't think this is intended.

[Dregre]

Can other people, especially the current maintainers, please confirm my findings? Do I have a typo in my script? If the current version of Angel's Bioprocessing really does not spawn temperate gardens, the only way to get them is the new garden mutations, which is locked behind nuclear tech. And I don't think this is intended.

Did a quick read-through of the code relating to gardens and tree spawns and, if I understand it correctly, temperate gardens seems to have a different water range than the other two gardens. Temperate has water_range=0.2, water_max_range=0.3, with the other two having water_range=0.1, water_range=0.15. The trees all share the same water_range and water_max_range of 0.125 for both, though they have a different water_optimal than their respective gardens. Why this is I don't know.

Based on this, my best guess is that it has to do with the range and max range being different from the other two somehow messes with the generation. Still, that doesn't seem like it should be the case.

EDIT:
Did a quick and dirty test by changing the water_range and water_max_range of the temperate garden. This did not fix the lack of spawns, so I have no idea. Any other mention I find of it in the code seems otherwise equal to the other gardens.

[mrvn]

Can other people, especially the current maintainers, please confirm my findings? Do I have a typo in my script? If the current version of Angel's Bioprocessing really does not spawn temperate gardens, the only way to get them is the new garden mutations, which is locked behind nuclear tech. And I don't think this is intended.

Did a quick read-through of the code relating to gardens and tree spawns and, if I understand it correctly, temperate gardens seems to have a different water range than the other two gardens. Temperate has water_range=0.2, water_max_range=0.3, with the other two having water_range=0.1, water_range=0.15. The trees all share the same water_range and water_max_range of 0.125 for both, though they have a different water_optimal than their respective gardens. Why this is I don't know.

Based on this, my best guess is that it has to do with the range and max range being different from the other two somehow messes with the generation. Still, that doesn't seem like it should be the case.

EDIT:
Did a quick and dirty test by changing the water_range and water_max_range of the temperate garden. This did not fix the lack of spawns, so I have no idea. Any other mention I find of it in the code seems otherwise equal to the other gardens.

Maybe try commenting out the other trees/gardens to see if they simply overlap. They might have identical noise functions and they always end up on the same tile and the top one wins.

[Dregre]

Can other people, especially the current maintainers, please confirm my findings? Do I have a typo in my script? If the current version of Angel's Bioprocessing really does not spawn temperate gardens, the only way to get them is the new garden mutations, which is locked behind nuclear tech. And I don't think this is intended.

Did a quick read-through of the code relating to gardens and tree spawns and, if I understand it correctly, temperate gardens seems to have a different water range than the other two gardens. Temperate has water_range=0.2, water_max_range=0.3, with the other two having water_range=0.1, water_range=0.15. The trees all share the same water_range and water_max_range of 0.125 for both, though they have a different water_optimal than their respective gardens. Why this is I don't know.

Based on this, my best guess is that it has to do with the range and max range being different from the other two somehow messes with the generation. Still, that doesn't seem like it should be the case.

EDIT:
Did a quick and dirty test by changing the water_range and water_max_range of the temperate garden. This did not fix the lack of spawns, so I have no idea. Any other mention I find of it in the code seems otherwise equal to the other gardens.

Maybe try commenting out the other trees/gardens to see if they simply overlap. They might have identical noise functions and they always end up on the same tile and the top one wins.

You are correct! I tried changing the placement order for the gardens. The original was temperate->desert->swamp(you may notice a correlation with the number of spawns), I simply changed it to swamp->desert->temperate. Now the results are temperate:49 desert: 68 and swamp:0. My guess is that there is too much overlap between them.

I did another test where I turned moisture to max, making the whole map more or less a swamp. This had the interesting effect of causing almost nothing but swamp trees to spawn(t:100, d:33 s:416), but not a single swamp garden(t:63, d:10 s:0). For reference there was about 20million regular trees. So there is definitely something not working right with the garden spawning.

[valneq]

Looks like lovely_santa was able to fix the garden generation really quickly:
https://github.com/Arch666Angel/mods/issues/39

Thanks to everybody for helping to test & debug this

[lovely_santa]

On normal mode smelting crushed sapphirite (iron) and stiratite (copper) give double yields compared to bobmonium(tin) and rubyte(lead), on expensive mode all have the same yields afaik. I dont know why exactly the saph/stira give double yields, maybe to make starting easier, but it diminishes the power or sorting and using blast furnaces a lot until more advanced smelting recipes come available.

I am still debating on (by default) reducing this to only give 1 plate as a result, but add in a setting to keep it at 2. This however would (by default) reduce the speed of progression early game, and introduce even more crushed stone at the start (an extra 1.5 crushed stone for every iron/copper plate). I could always increase the stone from crushed stone as a sink, but I'm open for any counter measures. Solely reducing the plate smelting amounts would make it quite a bit unbalanced.

I have a few suggestions:
1. Replace fluorite ore in jivolite sorting with lead, remove fluorite ore from the uranium & thorium crystallization recipe, and remove the pure fluorite ore sorting recipe, and add a recipe to make it from a crystal catalyst & crystal seedling.
2. Change the orange alien alloy to be made from molten orange alien alloy, which is made from steel ingots and orange alien artifacts.

I am redoing the sorting recipes, so they will be the same as they where in 0.17:

• Saphirite -> Iron, Copper, silicon, Nickel, Titanium and Zinc
• Jivolite -> Iron, Copper, Aluminium, Zinc, Silver, Tungsten
• Stiratite -> Copper, Iron, Cobalt, Tin, Uranium, Aluminium
• Crotinnium -> Copper, Iron, Lead, Silver, Gold, Titanium
• Rubyte -> Lead, Nickel, Aluminium, Gold, Tungsten
• Bobmonium -> Tin, Silicon, Cobalt, Zinc, Aluminium, Uranium
• Ferrous -> Iron, Manganese, Nickel, Cobalt, Chrome
• Cupric -> Copper, Silicon, Silver, Gold, Platinum

Crystallizing recipes will be:

• Iron/Copper
• Lead/Tin
• Silicon/Silver
• Gold/Nickel
• Zinc/Titanium
• Aluminium/Manganese
• Chrome/Platinum
• Cobalt/Tungsten
• Uranium/Fluorite/Thorium

The fluorite ore will stay in the uranium/thorium crystallisation, it's sort of a byproduct. Feel free to give any feedback on the grouping together, I am open to make some changes, but most of it early game seems balanced, and in the end you can make dedicated ore setups on their own or to compliment the short comings. Ferrous stays the only (sorting) way of obtaining manganese and chrome, and I gave purpose to Cupric as the only way of obtaining Platinum. Both are also used in the Thorium crystallization.

I can also tell that I am working on creating all the roll recipes for all ores. Some of you say they don't give any net increase of production, you can always put productivity modules in the roll to plate conversion recipes, and the recipes with coolant give an ever so slightly reduction in use of molten fluid (140 instead of 160; increase productivity of 12.5%). This will fill up the tab a bit nicer as it won't feel so empty for ore types that do not have a lot of recipes present.

On your 2nd suggestion, I am not touching alien alloys yet, as I still need to develop (extend) angels version of alien artifacts, and once that's done, work on the full use of them as well, so for now they stay bob recipes, and bob uses only.

And for the conversation about the oxygen: I will re-introduce an oxygen-free solder recipe for early game during this overhaul.

Can other people, especially the current maintainers, please confirm my findings? Do I have a typo in my script? If the current version of Angel's Bioprocessing really does not spawn temperate gardens, the only way to get them is the new garden mutations, which is locked behind nuclear tech. And I don't think this is intended.

Your script is fine, the garden mutations are indeed locked behind nuclear (purple) science, as intended. Do you think this is too far? It is only at that stage that you really start producing modules, which is one of the main things you are locking away in case of really bad luck (for example due to seablock only spawning sand islands, you can only obtain desert trees/gardens in seablock).

It is however not intended that on a 'vanilla map' that you don't get any temperate gardens. The ratios between the different types depends purely on your world generation (eg. a desert map versus a green land with lots of moist tiles). The ratio between trees/gardens of the same type should be more or less 50/50. (At least that's the intention).

...

Maybe try commenting out the other trees/gardens to see if they simply overlap. They might have identical noise functions and they always end up on the same tile and the top one wins.

You are correct! I tried changing the placement order for the gardens. The original was temperate->desert->swamp(you may notice a correlation with the number of spawns), I simply changed it to swamp->desert->temperate. Now the results are temperate:49 desert: 68 and swamp:0. My guess is that there is too much overlap between them.

Thanks for the tip, this really got me on the right track after I already tried earlier today (saw the first report already and did some number tweaking without any success).

I did multiple (smaller) tests while tweaking the values until they where more or less generating the same criteria:

1. The type of tree/garden depends on the generated land, so it depends on the water level (more or less related to the moisture),
2. For each type, the ratio between tree/garden should be more or less 50/50.

With the fixes that I did, the generation is more or less 50/50. The auto placement will first generate a tree of a type and then the corresponding garden. This results in a ratio that is more like 55trees/45gardens. Once all the final numbers where put in, I started a full generation for 3 instances of factorio, which came more or less in the same ranges.

One of the results is shown below. As you can see when I looked at the preview it started out as a nice 50% green 50% desert map, but in the end it turned out to have alot of desert. This comes back to the point I started with (1): The generated tress/garden depend on the generated land, so I have a lot more desert garden/trees versus the other trees, due to my map generation. This also reflected on my other 2 generations, one was almost the oposite as it had a lot of green land, so I had a lot of temperate trees, and as already mensioned, the ratio tree/garden is more or less 50/50, favoring the trees.

Capture.PNG (172.04 KiB) Viewed 6413 times

This will be part of the next release of bio processing.

Looks like lovely_santa was able to fix the garden generation really quickly:
https://github.com/Arch666Angel/mods/issues/39

Thanks to everybody for helping to test & debug this

I was still writing this reply message I'm not that fast to reply to all at once

Finaly for who is still reading my message Me and Timbo were in a twitch stream and got some feedback about mentioning our names on the mods themselves, in order to get some recognition for the work that we do. We both thought that we don't need our names next to Angels name as author. I suggested instead to make it "Arch666Angel & community team" or something, but even that is not needed (for me at least). What would most of you suggest? The support that I see here on the forums and other places that I talk to people is enough for me.

[yzorr]

Hey folks,

I have 1k+ hours into AngelBob, and am currently writing an Illustrated Primer to guide folks in the 100-to-1000 hour range into an enjoyable AngelBob playthrough highlighting the game's many emergent subsystems. Buses, grids, circuits, trains, bots, modules, constrained building, and so on. I think/hope it's going to be pretty fun!

While I understand that moving away from Greenhouses edges us all towards a more realistic approach to becoming a Type-1 Kardashev Civilization, it also ditches some pretty great breadcrumbing around sorting silicon ore, using water as input in a non-power setting, and splitting wood from saplings in an a-ha! moment of massively disproportionate maybe-look-at-the-ratios-again ratio zen. Very solid very early game lessons.

This effs with my guide a bit. Greenhouses provided some pretty great points to talk on; I do not see an even-better Socrates emerging.

I'll look some more; while I'm looking, did the team consider these changes w/r/t breadcrumbing?

Thanks!

[Dregre]

Finaly for who is still reading my message Me and Timbo were in a twitch stream and got some feedback about mentioning our names on the mods themselves, in order to get some recognition for the work that we do. We both thought that we don't need our names next to Angels name as author. I suggested instead to make it "Arch666Angel & community team" or something, but even that is not needed (for me at least). What would most of you suggest? The support that I see here on the forums and other places that I talk to people is enough for me.

I would say it is up to you, Angel and the team. It's your work, so you place whatever branding you feel is appropriate. But if nothing else, you could have a contributor/credits file so you have your name somewhere.

[valneq]

the garden mutations are indeed locked behind nuclear (purple) science, as intended. Do you think this is too far?

No. My concern was that without any temperate gardens, the only way to get the temperate farming going (a great source of cellulose) would be locked behind nuclear science in an Angel's game with default settings. If people crank down moisture or play seablock or similar extensions of Bob's&Angel's, it's their business. But I am happy that nonexistent temperate gardens were actually a bug, so keeping garden mutations behind nuclear stuff is fine with me.

Finaly for who is still reading my message Me and Timbo were in a twitch stream and got some feedback about mentioning our names on the mods themselves, in order to get some recognition for the work that we do. We both thought that we don't need our names next to Angels name as author. I suggested instead to make it "Arch666Angel & community team" or something, but even that is not needed (for me at least). What would most of you suggest? The support that I see here on the forums and other places that I talk to people is enough for me.

As a first suggestion how about the following:
Keep Arch666Angel as the mod owner, but add a paragraph to the mod description saying something like

The original author Arch666Angel is currently occupied otherwise. Therefore, maintenance and further development of this mod are presently managed by

• list
• of
• people

with continued input from Arch666Angel, who will take back over once time allows.

Or however you believe to most accurately phrase the current situation.