Development and Discussion

[pezzawinkle]

So I just updated everything to 0.18 and it seems that some of the ore sorting recipes have been switched around. Looks like the 4x silver got switched with nickel, and the 4x nickel got switched with manganese.

ok, just to confirm... The old Silver recipe (Jiv/Bob/Crot Crystals) moved to Nickel (Rub/Stir Chunks), which moved to manganese
looks like the silver recipe is actually a new recipe...(Stir/Rub Chunks)
While this change was not really intended, it has been an often requested change. It has been added to the changelog for the next release... Manganese didn't really get "swapped" with anything as technically that didn't exist without clowns. The change won't be game breaking on new bases, but will cause a rebuild for some old bases (myself included)...
The team will keep an eye on this change, but for now, it is best to assume it will stay... Sorry.

[Boeng01]

First i want to thank all of you helping to keep angel's mods alive. Great work.

With the new update out, i figured out how helpful the shinyangelgfx (and shinybobsgfx of course) by Zombiee were. With all different tiers of buildings now having the same color it's just a mess keeping track on the different states of your production lines. (in my opinion)

Is there any chance to form a collaboration or something to get the tier based coloring into the base mod?

[Hellspawn]

First i want to thank all of you helping to keep angel's mods alive. Great work.

With the new update out, i figured out how helpful the shinyangelgfx (and shinybobsgfx of course) by Zombiee were. With all different tiers of buildings now having the same color it's just a mess keeping track on the different states of your production lines. (in my opinion)

Is there any chance to form a collaboration or something to get the tier based coloring into the base mod?

i would like to sign both of this!

Additionaly i would like to ask if it´s intentional that the green alge now also produce brown alge?
I have some power setups with green alge as a base. Now with the update i dont know were to trash the brown alge. My workaround solution is that i gave them a 1MJ energy value and just burn them.
Another solution could be that paper got a energy value, so it´s not to easy to just get rid of it but still have a way to handle it. And that would of course also match my IRL experience were paper burns very well

[danyax]

Electro Whinning Cell MK1 and MK2 has same speed.

Crushed Ferrous Sorting gives 3 iron + 1 manganese, Crushed Cupric Sorting gives 2 copper + 2 tin. Next levels of Ferrous sorting give 50% of iron as output.

Nickel (tier 3 now) could be obtained from Saphirite Chunks sorting and Ferrous Powder. It is the only new tier 3 ore that is available from Chunks sorting.

In 0.17 we were able to get gold from Chunks sorting, but this is not the case in 0.18. So now modules are effectively locked to Chemical Science.

Cobalt ore is not available before Chemical Science, it means steam engine 3 and steam turbine (Transport science) could not be build. BTW Boilers 3 require just Invar, which is available before Chemical science.

Clay bricks are Automation Science techs for all components except Limestone, but Limestone is locked by Transport Science.

Cement processing is now derived from Cement tech, which is 5x times more expensive. But without Cement we can't make concrete bricks needed for many buildings, so Cement tech is essentially required to unlock those Transport level buildings.

Is this all intended or just omissions?

[lovely_santa]

First i want to thank all of you helping to keep angel's mods alive. Great work.

With the new update out, i figured out how helpful the shinyangelgfx (and shinybobsgfx of course) by Zombiee were. With all different tiers of buildings now having the same color it's just a mess keeping track on the different states of your production lines. (in my opinion)

Is there any chance to form a collaboration or something to get the tier based coloring into the base mod?

i would like to sign both of this!

If the author of shinyAngelGfx is up for a collab, I would be happy to help on angels part. I was thinking of having a mask as overlay for each building, so we can give each tier a tinted look. So the buildings would look the same, but with some distinction for each tier (like the colors on the sides of an assembling machine). Feel free to hit me/us up here!

Additionaly i would like to ask if it´s intentional that the green alge now also produce brown alge?
I have some power setups with green alge as a base. Now with the update i dont know were to trash the brown alge. My workaround solution is that i gave them a 1MJ energy value and just burn them.
Another solution could be that paper got a energy value, so it´s not to easy to just get rid of it but still have a way to handle it. And that would of course also match my IRL experience were paper burns very well

I think you did the "Brown Algae Processing" research? Which indeed unlocks tier 1 green algae production, which produces 20 green algae + 5 brown algae. There is another technology "Green Algae Processing", which is also only automation science, and this creates 40 green algae with 0 brown algae as byproduct.
The required carbon dioxide can easily be produced from the green algae itself, and the mineralised water is just regular water and crushed stone (which you should have plenty off).

[Hellspawn]

I think you did the "Brown Algae Processing" research? Which indeed unlocks tier 1 green algae production, which produces 20 green algae + 5 brown algae. There is another technology "Green Algae Processing", which is also only automation science, and this creates 40 green algae with 0 brown algae as byproduct.
The required carbon dioxide can easily be produced from the green algae itself, and the mineralised water is just regular water and crushed stone (which you should have plenty off).

Oh you are right!
So i redesign my setup to the carbon recipe, ty!

[Boeng01]

First i want to thank all of you helping to keep angel's mods alive. Great work.

With the new update out, i figured out how helpful the shinyangelgfx (and shinybobsgfx of course) by Zombiee were. With all different tiers of buildings now having the same color it's just a mess keeping track on the different states of your production lines. (in my opinion)

Is there any chance to form a collaboration or something to get the tier based coloring into the base mod?

i would like to sign both of this!

If the author of shinyAngelGfx is up for a collab, I would be happy to help on angels part. I was thinking of having a mask as overlay for each building, so we can give each tier a tinted look. So the buildings would look the same, but with some distinction for each tier (like the colors on the sides of an assembling machine). Feel free to hit me/us up here!

Thanks for answering. For me personally it doesn't really matter if it's exactly the same look that Zombiee's Shiny Mods provided, as long as the Tiers are distinguishable from each other. Your solution also sounds reasonable. I just think if somebody did great work on one thing, why not use it and put energy elsewhere needed?

[Hellspawn]

Ok, i tried to build a setup like that (im playing Seablock, dont know if that affect any of that). You are right, if i connect the existing stone from the rest of the factory, there is no stone issue.
But if you like to have a independent "emergency" power supply it is really no to easy to get the stuff you need. Also for the early game were ressources and space (in Seablock a big deal) is limited this is a no an easy thing to get around.
I made some rough calulation with Helmod. To build a setup to produce ~72MW (or 3 charcoal pellets/s, charcoal pellets is a red + green science tech, if you still on red science only, you burn charcoal --> poweroutput is 60MW instead) you will need round about 48 Electrolyser to get the required slag (slag --> Stone)
The setup itself will consume ~30MW to run, so the gain would be 40MW.

So my conculsion for that change is:
- Using the alge 2 (mineralized water + carbondioxid) is not an good option for the early game, because of high cost and low power gain
- the change in the alge 1 recipe is a benfit for the early game IF you use all the brown alge (e.g. for circuit boards), you dont have to actualy build a seperate brown alge farm early on.
But you have to consider that you can not really on the power output because as soon as your brown alge stalls, the power will shut down.
- using the green alge 1 recipe is not an good option if you wanne build a 24/7 maintain free power setup

[lovely_santa]

Ok, i tried to build a setup like that (im playing Seablock, dont know if that affect any of that). You are right, if i connect the existing stone from the rest of the factory, there is no stone issue.
But if you like to have a independent "emergency" power supply it is really no to easy to get the stuff you need. Also for the early game were ressources and space (in Seablock a big deal) is limited this is a no an easy thing to get around.
I made some rough calulation with Helmod. To build a setup to produce ~72MW (or 3 charcoal pellets/s, charcoal pellets is a red + green science tech, if you still on red science only, you burn charcoal --> poweroutput is 60MW instead) you will need round about 48 Electrolyser to get the required slag (slag --> Stone)
The setup itself will consume ~30MW to run, so the gain would be 40MW.

So my conculsion for that change is:
- Using the alge 2 (mineralized water + carbondioxid) is not an good option for the early game, because of high cost and low power gain
- the change in the alge 1 recipe is a benfit for the early game IF you use all the brown alge (e.g. for circuit boards), you dont have to actualy build a seperate brown alge farm early on.
But you have to consider that you can not really on the power output because as soon as your brown alge stalls, the power will shut down.
- using the green alge 1 recipe is not an good option if you wanne build a 24/7 maintain free power setup

I feel like you're conflicting yourself in your post. I think your issue is that you have a small (early game) setup (in seablock) where you are already concerned about emergency power, or an independent power setup. Yes I know you need some power, which you can build indeed. Once you have your first green science you can start the arboretums to get a higher yield, at which you can sustain a separate power setup. I think its fair to not have a 'no-player-cost' system right off the start...

If seablock feels like it, seablock can always increase the power yield of the fuel items, or alter the recipes?

[Molay]

Has anyone had other gardens than swamp gardens spawn? As for the trees, I have about 10 desert, 10 temperate and 20 swamp trees. As I would expect, starting in a swamp. But as I ventured into other biomes, I only found other trees, not other gardens. Could well just be how it generated, but it's odd to find so many desert/temperate trees and not a single garden. Are they spawning at all for other people?

[snelg]

Has anyone had other gardens than swamp gardens spawn? As for the trees, I have about 10 desert, 10 temperate and 20 swamp trees. As I would expect, starting in a swamp. But as I ventured into other biomes, I only found other trees, not other gardens. Could well just be how it generated, but it's odd to find so many desert/temperate trees and not a single garden. Are they spawning at all for other people?

I have found 3 desert gardens in my game, they were all close by in a barren area.
Haven't really gone looking for more due to the problem with labs not accepting the tokens (looks fixed in the next version).

[Bobblybook]

I have submitted a pull request on angel's github for support for the new Py Alien Life in angel's infinite ores

[lovely_santa]

I have submitted a pull request on angel's github for support for the new Py Alien Life in angel's infinite ores

I saw that, but it said it still had a todo to cange the mining fluid to "a reasonable fluid" for mining it? I'm not sure what fluid this should be? (never played py). Hence why I am not merging it yet.

[Bobblybook]

Sure, no worries. I'm not the author of py's mods and I have asked him to decide on an appropriate fluid to use (sulfuric acid is the default but it doesn't really make sense for extracting plant matter).

I can cancel the request if you like until that is finalised, so only 1 merge is required.

[lovely_santa]

The angels 0.18.1 release is out.
Check out the full changelog (of all mods) in 1 place on this github post, or ingame for each individual mod. It only consists of bugfixes, which do involve some (minor) breaks in recipes.

I also want to mention already that in the next release (or at least an upcomming release), the refining recipes should be fixed. This includes the reported bug about the gold ore one, and also the (unintended) switch of nickel, basicaly all refining recipes should be similar like it was on 0.17.

Sure, no worries. I'm not the author of py's mods and I have asked him to decide on an appropriate fluid to use (sulfuric acid is the default but it doesn't really make sense for extracting plant matter).

I can cancel the request if you like until that is finalised, so only 1 merge is required.

Will be a bit before another release, so I would say just commit to the (existing) PR, and when it is finished, then I'll merge it in.

[Boeng01]

Thanks for your work, people!

Bad news is, that it still seems to be impossible for me to get the tokens into the labs. Is there some prerequisition needed to get this working? I again tried to rebuild my labs to get them in, with no luck.

Tried a new game, no difference. No slot for 'exploration token bio tech' in the labs.

[Dregre]

Quick feedback from a few map generations: Gas still seems to be about 5x that of oil at equivilent distance (i.e. oil in the same rough distance is 1k, gas is 5k). With RSO enabled the spawn area still gets an insane amount of gas ~50-100x that of oil. Gas had about 20-50k while oil was between 200 and 500 with RSO in spawn area. However that is likely a bug/integration on RSOs side. I'll do some more digging through the files and see if I can nail it down.

Thermal water is still way out of wack though, not sure if that is intentional, but TW has spawns of 50k-70k without RSO as the closest to spawn.

[canisdirusleidy]

Also as to the early steel recipe requiring oxygen: that's quite annoying to be Frank. Problem is that there's no way to void gases yet. And all I got are the tiny 5k inline tanks for storage. I just keep deleting and rebuilding them periodically to get rid of the hydrogen. But it doesn't feel good. Perhaps unlocking proper store or the flare stack earlier?

By the way. Same problem with basic electronic boards. Because Bob's recipe for solder has been disabled and now it can only be made from ingots. And for the smelting of lead ingots, oxygen blast and the removal of sulfur dioxide are needed.
So, IMHO, flare stack needs lower tier version: ineffective and generating huge pollution but can be made from stone bricks and iron pipes only.

[lovely_santa]

Thanks for your work, people!

Bad news is, that it still seems to be impossible for me to get the tokens into the labs. Is there some prerequisition needed to get this working? I again tried to rebuild my labs to get them in, with no luck.

Tried a new game, no difference. No slot for 'exploration token bio tech' in the labs.

I've found yet another edge case where it didn't get added correctly. I've put out a hotfix for it.

Also as to the early steel recipe requiring oxygen: that's quite annoying to be Frank. Problem is that there's no way to void gases yet. And all I got are the tiny 5k inline tanks for storage. I just keep deleting and rebuilding them periodically to get rid of the hydrogen. But it doesn't feel good. Perhaps unlocking proper store or the flare stack earlier?

By the way. Same problem with basic electronic boards. Because Bob's recipe for solder has been disabled and now it can only be made from ingots. And for the smelting of lead ingots, oxygen blast and the removal of sulfur dioxide are needed.
So, IMHO, flare stack needs lower tier version: ineffective and generating huge pollution but can be made from stone bricks and iron pipes only.

What about a burner flare stack? Could that work as an initial help?

Quick feedback from a few map generations: Gas still seems to be about 5x that of oil at equivilent distance (i.e. oil in the same rough distance is 1k, gas is 5k). With RSO enabled the spawn area still gets an insane amount of gas ~50-100x that of oil. Gas had about 20-50k while oil was between 200 and 500 with RSO in spawn area. However that is likely a bug/integration on RSOs side. I'll do some more digging through the files and see if I can nail it down.

Thermal water is still way out of wack though, not sure if that is intentional, but TW has spawns of 50k-70k without RSO as the closest to spawn.

Thermal water is used a lot for refining, so I'm not sure if we need to tweak it, it didn't feel out of wack if I recalled without RSO. Without RSO, gas wells where generating about 2.5K and 3K respectivly on almost all test worlds I've loaded. We could always fine tune it a bit more, but a goal of 50:50 doesn't feel natural anyway? At least it's not 250K+ yields...

[Boeng01]

I've found yet another edge case where it didn't get added correctly. I've put out a hotfix for it.

Great, that did it!

Thanks for your fast response