The Hydra Dilemma - A Coop Factorio Playthrough!

[Infectum13]

The redditors over there have started complaining about us posting each episode. I've stopped posting over there because it attracts a bunch of random downvotes just because the post is an LP. My suggestion: subscribe to each contributor on youtube or you can follow me on twitter ( ), I add each video to a playlist and it gets tweeted out through my account.

Probably the best solution to the shortage,

is to find Root's stash, put it in the car, drive it through the forest and collect a tail of biters

. Then, when you give him the game, tell him not to crash or he will lose 2 hours of game production time.

Dude. Spoilers!

But I do like the prank

I agree, I think most of us have other accounts besides YouTube that you can follow us on. Twitter, Google +, and of course you can subscribe. Each of us have all the episodes on our playlist.

[Junion]

Huh..looks like my lack of faith was misplaced .


Ok watched it...as always interesting. Especially lack of knowledge leading to odd decisions . But yay power was fixed...the fact that a certain someone (not naming names *coughtrootcouch* sorry bad cough there) removed the metal plate to network got caught was nice. Like some of the other players I hate the chest being near the start of the belt but...at this point i'm not sure which is more useful anyway (I'd have stuck those two chests at the end of a runoff somewhere).

The way you caught up production on some things was..sadly, poorly planned but you tried. As a suggestion for the reds...look for the ring that..I think it was fish..set up. That's a nice layout (and honestly should be blueprinted ). The green ones are rougher though...and there is a lot of ways to handle that. But you're requesting something that isn't in the network either with your setup.

Finally the constant issues with copy/pasting was amusing. Especially as you constantly switched between doing it right and wrong.

"OK Rightclick to copy, now leftclick leftclick leftclick"
"Ok leftclick, now right right right.."
"I don't get it why isn't this working? lets do that again."
"Leftclick, now right right right.."
"Why didn't tht work? Guess I'll just need to do these by hand.."
....later on....
"Rightclick, left left left left"

It was just..amusing . Especially never catching what the true issue was heh.

What is the correct way...I couldn't get the bugger to work...
What was being requested that wasn't in the network? I thought we had both.

Heh i was hoping my quoting made it obvious...but instead of rewording it, I would suggest you re-read it and see at what points 'this dosn't work' came in. As the 'it didn't work' only appeared after certain lines. if still not obvious, the next lines explain it.

You constantly switched (while playing) between what you thought the uses of right/left shift clicking was. Right Shift click sets what you wish to copy. Left shift click copies what you have set.
So you should ALWAYS right shift click first, then left shiftclick to set the other factories.

But about half of the time you did the opposite, and that is why it didn't work. If you want to think of it differently...left click always places what you are holding. Shift left Click places settings. Shift Righ tclick gives you a setting to hold.


As for what isn't in the system. Copper coil, nothing puts that into the system (because it gets used so fast, it gets hard to keep up with..trust me I've tried it in my games...and I muchly regret it ).

[n9103]

In other words, copper wire should always, and only be directly inserted. There is no other practical way to deal with the amount of items needed when dealing with copper wire.
If you've got a back log of wire on either belts or chests, you've chosen where to spend your resources, poorly.

[FKODgaming]

New episode is live here:

http://youtu.be/DRbw2ohOPaI

[JoshLittle]

New episode is live here:

http://youtu.be/DRbw2ohOPaI

Feels like "Alex's Slowrun Weak Mode #79"

...

• What
• If you had taken out the already delivered but in your setup not more needed circuits the waiting for inserters would have been much shorter.
• Logistic system will be very happy about your setup... not
• Another unprotected outpost
• A medium belt, without faster corners, joining with a slow splitter, onto a slow belt, in front of two miners using that belt, ...

But at least you didn't try to mess up the signal mess even more by trying to do it with a train.

[-root]

Episode 80 by Xterminator is up!

I'll be live streaming episode 81 tonight on twitch (roughly 5hrs from now)

Be sure you've caught episode 80

[n9103]

Always great when an LP opens with some blasphemy
Don't feel too bad Xterm, I didn't see it was in the station either.

Lots of tips on the gameplay and response to commentary

(Most of these are in general terms, but they also generally apply here.)
*psst* use the logistics system, or at least the chests picking up the resources you're looking for.
Not all that short on iron, but a great deal is being extracted to the logistic system.
Using belts that are faster will always work better, even if they're not as densely packed. (For linear comparisons. Parallel is different.)
You missed a slow belt on a corner near the mines in the base closest to the furnaces. You got it later on though.
*psst* Logistic System! Larger requests get a larger proportion when the system is running low on an item. (Or so it always seems to me.)
Two slow belts running in parallel will be better than one fast belt.
Belts that are split into two belts of equal or faster speed will always be less compact.
Props on recognizing that you should work backwards in rolling out speed upgrades to belts.
Unfortunately, you didn't go all the way from end to start, and skipped a large portion of slow belts and a slow splitter. :-\
Except for cleaning up belts, you should never run around picking up items off belts if the items are in your Logistic system.
Red Belts aren't fast enough? Rework for more belts, not Express belts. (Except corners. Express corners are good.)
Really, how many times do you walk past chests with the item you're complaining about before you notice it? At least more than 4 it would seem
Good effort, but lack of using the Logistic system seems to have crippled the episode.

[DaveMcW]

8:50 Looks at assembling machine and belt full of gears. "Are these here for a reason?" Walks away.

22:18 "So these are taking forever because I have to make a bajillion gears."

[-root]

Hydra dilemma is now live!

Twitch link

[Xterminator]

Always great when an LP opens with some blasphemy
Don't feel too bad Xterm, I didn't see it was in the station either.

Lots of tips on the gameplay and response to commentary

(Most of these are in general terms, but they also generally apply here.)
*psst* use the logistics system, or at least the chests picking up the resources you're looking for.
Not all that short on iron, but a great deal is being extracted to the logistic system.
Using belts that are faster will always work better, even if they're not as densely packed. (For linear comparisons. Parallel is different.)
You missed a slow belt on a corner near the mines in the base closest to the furnaces. You got it later on though.
*psst* Logistic System! Larger requests get a larger proportion when the system is running low on an item. (Or so it always seems to me.)
Two slow belts running in parallel will be better than one fast belt.
Belts that are split into two belts of equal or faster speed will always be less compact.
Props on recognizing that you should work backwards in rolling out speed upgrades to belts.
Unfortunately, you didn't go all the way from end to start, and skipped a large portion of slow belts and a slow splitter. :-\
Except for cleaning up belts, you should never run around picking up items off belts if the items are in your Logistic system.
Red Belts aren't fast enough? Rework for more belts, not Express belts. (Except corners. Express corners are good.)
Really, how many times do you walk past chests with the item you're complaining about before you notice it? At least more than 4 it would seem
Good effort, but lack of using the Logistic system seems to have crippled the episode.

Thanks for the tips. My reasoning behind not using the logistics system is it seemed like the robots weren't ever delivering any Iron to me, so I just figured that was none in the system, or at least not enough to deliver what I needed. Plus I didn't feel like waiting for them to deliver it, so I just picked it up off belts.
I would say it is a bit of a stretch to say that not using the logistics system crippled the episode. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[Xterminator]

8:50 Looks at assembling machine and belt full of gears. "Are these here for a reason?" Walks away.

22:18 "So these are taking forever because I have to make a bajillion gears."

Ohhhh weeellll. I quickly forgot about the machines making gears, after I got distracted by fixing stuff again. It happens to the best of us, even if some people won't admit to it.

[JoshLittle]

@xterminator:
Yeah, it is an extremely boring episode

Perhaps it sounds mean, but it's not really meant to be. It is just the same story with you over and over again:

• Apparently you still didn't learn to use belts, splitters and balancers. A whole episode with an improvement of little over zero. Why? It would be boring to explain it again. It includes that stupid additional splitter you set in in ep 73 for which even you didn't recognize a use now.
• You still don't know what more to do? The list a gave you a while ago is still valid. But simply continue to complain about not having anything to do.
• Or to find excuses not to defend miners. Really? It's bad enough to place miners without protecting it (which includes Alex (
  Ep 79
  ) and root (
  Ep 81
  ) in this case), but these excuse of you is just so absurd that it hurts (
  the consequences already followed in Ep 81
  ). Always defend them, always! And even wiping out some base doesn't count as protection - (what you still don't get after all the time)!

@root:
Your prank is limping a bit because specially you were the guy who takes the rules as unilaterally as possible (

like ripping down accumulators to have the place for furnaces or to read spoilers

)
Oh and the start time of your episode was somewhere around min 41. Perhaps you can edit the accurate information into your post with the link

[Infectum13]

@xterminator:
Yeah, it is an extremely boring episode

Perhaps it sounds mean, but it's not really meant to be. It is just the same story with you over and over again:

• Apparently you still didn't learn to use belts, splitters and balancers. A whole episode with an improvement of little over zero. Why? It would be boring to explain it again. It includes that stupid additional splitter you set in in ep 73 for which even you didn't recognize a use now.
• You still don't know what more to do? The list a gave you a while ago is still valid. But simply continue to complain about not having anything to do.
• Or to find excuses not to defend miners. Really? It's bad enough to place miners without protecting it (which includes Alex (
  Ep 79
  ) and root (
  Ep 81
  ) in this case), but these excuse of you is just so absurd that it hurts (
  the consequences already followed in Ep 81
  ). Always defend them, always! And even wiping out some base doesn't count as protection - (what you still don't get after all the time)!

@root:
Your prank is limping a bit because specially you were the guy who takes the rules as unilaterally as possible (

like ripping down accumulators to have the place for furnaces or to read spoilers

)
Oh and the start time of your episode was somewhere around min 41. Perhaps you can edit the accurate information into your post with the link

You seem really negative in this post JoshLittle? Usually you're a bit more diplomatic about your posts. Have we pushed you over the edge?

[Xterminator]

I have not read any of your posts for a while now Josh Little because they are all negative in some way and quite frankly not helpful to anyone except perhaps yourself for boosting your ego.
So sorry to tell you, but I have no idea what you have said for your last 5 or 6 posts as I just ignore them, but I will just agree with Infectum here. Because I can know he is right without even reading your post, seeing as you haven't made a positive or constructive post in a long time if ever on this thread.

[keyboardhack]

You seem really negative in this post JoshLittle? Usually you're a bit more diplomatic about your posts. Have we pushed you over the edge?

I have not read any of your posts for a while now Josh Little because they are all negative in some way and quite frankly not helpful to anyone except perhaps yourself for boosting your ego.
So sorry to tell you, but I have no idea what you have said for your last 5 or 6 posts as I just ignore them, but I will just agree with Infectum here. Because I can know he is right without even reading your post, seeing as you haven't made a positive or constructive post in a long time if ever on this thread.

You two should really stop acting tough and instead try to focus on your own problems. JL is raising a valid point about what he thinks of some of the players in the hydra dilemma. He tried to be nice about it and he still does, but it's not easy when you are ignored.

Try to learn something from this instead of getting mad.

[n9103]

I'm somewhere in the middle of these two viewpoints I guess.
Yes, there's some quite poor playing going on, but Josh has been a bit harsher than called for.

[JoshLittle]

@infectum:
It has nothing to do with a limit. It is just... :
You are such a positive guy who tries to give his best. It doesn't matter how bad the factory is, you bring the sunshine back to it. This is a real compliment and a kind of opposite to me. You make mistakes or also have no clou why something works or doesn't work, but that is not the problem. This is where hints come into play. The more experienced players give hints which makes the weaker player better and gives a chance for the better player to resolve an own misunderstanding of a thing if somebody else could correct it. In this thread it seems to be just one way. I leave hint after hint, but it is only seen negative (non-players: too many hints; players: too many critic). But it doesn't seem to be of little avail (non-players: rarely additional or improving discussions; players: same issues over and over again).
That is what I called sadness.

Like the main issues:

non-protection, wrong improvement of belts, manually rearanging existing items instead of optimizing the automation

You also have these problems. That is why I tried to compact it into the repeated sentence "speed is not the problem, the amount of stuff is". It seems you didn't realize the strength of this sentence yet. That would be a huge improvement, and also the combat. I would be so happy for you if this works out well for you.

And then there is this episode 80 with the exact same problems (=still just sadness) but with the huge difference of this really bad excuse that was already wrong in the first combat-episode. It is so obvious that the biters would bite his ass for that comment. It's not like ("oh, this was a bad because there is a way to make it 2% more effective") but like ("It's wrong, he knows it's wrong, but he walked again on red over a street in front of children").

Like if these two crippled outposts that even hardly exist for themselves without a propper protection would change a tiny bit of the situation of the new outpost.

. I think his skills are much higher (= honest compliment!) so that this seems like a big trolling while people watching the episode to get into factorio could take this logic for non-protection for granted. That is not the badest place to sound a bit more negative as usual, i think.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@xterminator:
Yeah, I never had any constructive comment? Man, that is so poor...
I clearly had more constructive comments than you had constructive episodes

If you don't believe me, just one example:

The second spoiler in JoshLittle's post is a great example of constructive feedback.
Infectum, I highly recommend you review the combat footage while reading through his analysis.

Ok, back to diplomatic mode again: Which comments leaded you to the ignoring? Perhaps I am too blind to see, but in the last five comments I had three episode-replys (one compliment and two discutable about the negativeness), one random situational joke and one part of a constructive discussion.
So the last post you replied and what seems to be the trigger for you is this post
This post is not mean and not even negative. It is also a try to collect things for me to make a FAQ-thing to help beginners with repeating questions that the game asks to solve. I even gave my own answers instead of just left the question for it's own. One point even lead into a discussion with a solved misunderstanding (because of which I will differentiate better between belt in lines).
And I review a lot of pages and can't recognize any mean stuff. I am aware that it could be annoying, but nothing that would fit into your description.
So tell me and I try to change (most diplomatic offer I can give)

[ssilk]

Josh Litte, I'll give you a hint of what I learned the last 12 month the hard way (and still do wrong sometimes):
Not everybody likes to get hints. Because it can be seen in two ways.

You mean "I like you, but I know it better; I'll tell you! "

But the other person might understand "What an asshole. I know, that I'm not so good in this game, but does he need to put my nose into it? And all the others which are watching my play, too? "

Maybe you heard, that when people talk, the speaker is responsible for what he says and the listener for what he understands. But, in this case, you are also responsible to think about this kind of deep misunderstanding. Your hints might be quite correct (indeed, most are), but not in a way, which might be acceptable; I mean a respectful way. They are not. Not always.

If not - well, it's your problem, but you can take this forum as a good place to learn it, cause this kind of "social ability" is everywhere needed.

[-root]

Yikes. Well that got real nasty real quick.

@josh, apologies about the dodgy timecode. I had to warm up before i started playing. the VOD will be up sometime today. Also my pranks are awesome

[Xterminator]

New episode is live here:

http://youtu.be/DRbw2ohOPaI

Feels like "Alex's Slowrun Weak Mode #79"

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about Josh. I don't know what you would consider this, perhaps the "timely joke" ? Even if it was meant to be a joke, to some people, such as myself, Alex and probably a few other readers it was just an insult with a smiley face to make it look nice. Because this is the internet, and not face to face, it is difficult sometimes (or a lot of the time) to distinguish between something that is helpful, a joke, or an insult or negativity, sense we can't actually see the emotion and tone behind it.

As for which comment was a "trigger", it was not one in particular but a build up. Out of all your comments for my videos, I remember 1 maybe 2 complaints, and 1 time that was actual constructive criticism and the rest seemed mostly negative. So after a point, I just stopped reading them because I didn't see a need to read insulting comments.

Honestly I know you probably just trying to help most the time, and give hints or tips, and that's fine. And as I have said before, I am all for constructive criticism. However... As ssilk pointed out, some people just don't want hint period (no I'm not one of those), and sometimes it can be misunderstood or come across differently to someone than you thought it would (yes that would be my situation).
Here is what I mean, and why I get so annoyed with some of your comments:

Yeah, it is an extremely boring episode

while true, and I said it myself, you telling me that doesn't help me in the slightest, it just makes me feel like I did even worse than I probably did.

Apparently you still didn't learn to use belts, splitters and balancers. A whole episode with an improvement of little over zero. Why? It would be boring to explain it again. It includes that stupid additional splitter you set in in ep 73 for which even you didn't recognize a use now.

To myself and probably most people, this is just rude. Granted I probably didn't do the belts correctly, but telling me that in the way you did, and yet still not offering a better way to do it, just isn't helpful.
Those are just a few examples. Now you have given me, and definitely some other people great hints that I'm sure did help. But comments such as these are just plain insulting to me.

Lastly the reason I get annoyed is because to me, and I know at least a few of the other players in this series, The Hydra Dilemma isn't meant to be an instruction series, nor is it meant to be anywhere near close to perfect. In fact quite the contrary... Part of the fun of the series, and why we wanted to do it was because we thought it would be quite interesting and funny to see how convoluted things get. But it seems like (especially as we got later into the series), that you expected it or wanted it to be perfect and for there to be no "mess up", or at least that's the vibe I got from a lot of the things you said. Also not to mention, Factorio (especially in this type of setting, without knowing what happened before hand) is hard to commentate for and play well at the same time, at least for me. And your right, I am a better player than what it would seem. I play much better than this in my solo campaigns, mostly due to the fact that I built everything, know how everything in the base works, and don't also have to talk over it and have it make sense. So I just get irritated because it seems that you expect us to play as perfectly as possible in this series, when so many things make it difficult to do so, and point away from that idea to begin with.

I do not wish for this to become a flame war, or poo flinging fight, so hopefully nobody takes this post as a signal to start one. :p And as you would say Josh, "this post was not meant to be negative of even insulting", I am just trying to explain my point of view and why I dislike some of the things you say. At this point, my fingers are tired and I'm tired, so good day and enjoy the wall of text.