pY Alien Life - Discussion

[shadowpho]

And what's wrong with fps in 0.18? Not understood - i'm playing on 0.17 bcuz i don't want to brake my py-mod-pack

I just unlocked intelligent design which turned on a large fraction of my base and my UPS is starting to suffer

[Squelch]

And what's wrong with fps in 0.18? Not understood - i'm playing on 0.17 bcuz i don't want to brake my py-mod-pack

I think what is meant is that there have been many optimizations and improvements in 0.18 that we will not get to enjoy in our current Py games and larger factories that are inevitable with PyAl - from what I've seen of it so far.

@Pyanodon - Will you be releasing PyAl for 17.79, or the newly released 0.18, or both?

[kingarthur]

And what's wrong with fps in 0.18? Not understood - i'm playing on 0.17 bcuz i don't want to brake my py-mod-pack

I think what is meant is that there have been many optimizations and improvements in 0.18 that we will not get to enjoy in our current Py games and larger factories that are inevitable with PyAl - from what I've seen of it so far.

@Pyanodon - Will you be releasing PyAl for 17.79, or the newly released 0.18, or both?

Pyal is going to .18. As of yesterday all pymods have been updated and just waiting on stdlib to be updated now

[shadowpho]

And what's wrong with fps in 0.18? Not understood - i'm playing on 0.17 bcuz i don't want to brake my py-mod-pack

I think what is meant is that there have been many optimizations and improvements in 0.18 that we will not get to enjoy in our current Py games and larger factories that are inevitable with PyAl - from what I've seen of it so far.

@Pyanodon - Will you be releasing PyAl for 17.79, or the newly released 0.18, or both?

Pyal is going to .18. As of yesterday all pymods have been updated and just waiting on stdlib to be updated now

Awesome! Thank you very much

[Squelch]

Indeed, that is good news.

I've been browsing stdlib and nothing has jumped out as being incompatible yet. However, that is no guarantee, and there might be something obscure lurking. I think it prudent to not even attempt to force its version number for fear of breaking saves. Also, separated graphics is likely in the next Py release, which is another reason for holding back.

I'm quite happy bumbling along in 0.17 for now, and I'll do a fresh start once 0.18 compatible drops. I have a feeling that we should expect a whole new experience, so I'm prepared to throw my current strategies out, and start anew.

Thanks @kingarthur

[shadowpho]

Indeed, that is good news.

I've been browsing stdlib and nothing has jumped out as being incompatible yet. However, that is no guarantee, and there might be something obscure lurking. I think it prudent to not even attempt to force its version number for fear of breaking saves. Also, separated graphics is likely in the next Py release, which is another reason for holding back.

I'm quite happy bumbling along in 0.17 for now, and I'll do a fresh start once 0.18 compatible drops. I have a feeling that we should expect a whole new experience, so I'm prepared to throw my current strategies out, and start anew.

Thanks @kingarthur

How far along are you? How's your UPS ? What CPU?

[aklesey1]

And what's wrong with fps in 0.18? Not understood - i'm playing on 0.17 bcuz i don't want to brake my py-mod-pack

I think what is meant is that there have been many optimizations and improvements in 0.18 that we will not get to enjoy in our current Py games and larger factories that are inevitable with PyAl - from what I've seen of it so far.

@Pyanodon - Will you be releasing PyAl for 17.79, or the newly released 0.18, or both?

Pyal is going to .18. As of yesterday all pymods have been updated and just waiting on stdlib to be updated now

So its seriously not possible to make separate version for 0.17 players? Who know when 0.18 will be more or less stable...

[chrisdec]

Still no update from nexela's stdlib

[BlueTemplar]

Give him time, it has only been 3 days !
"Only" "17%" of mods have been updated so far, and a standard library like this is likely to need even more time to do properly !
And he pretty much has to, considering how many mods depend on his !

[Squelch]

How far along are you? How's your UPS ? What CPU?

I'm assuming you mean my Py Suite playthrough? I had set myself some challenging restrictions listed below, but I'm at currently setting up for Circuits 3 and Production Science. I do get a dip in UPS as I travel across the factory and attribute that to particle effects as they are being loaded, and having graphics set highest. I'm eagerly waiting to see how 0.18 improves this. UPS is generally stable at 60 along with FPS. The internal laptop monitor default is 1080 @144Hz, but I also run on a UHD external monitor @60Hz.

My setup

MSI GE72 RE Laptop

• Intel i7 7800 CPU @2.8GHz
• Nvidia GTX 1050 Ti
• 16G memory
• 500GB system and 1TB data SSDs, 2TB "old iron" spinner for infrequent storage.
• Dual boot Win 10 and Linux (xUbuntu)

My Game

• Evolution restricted Biters. Peaceful mode.
• Maximum starting area
• Default ore distribution
• High, medium water frequency and size to give an archipelago type map.
• Default cliffs
• Minimal helper mods.
  • Where is it made.
  • What is it really used for.
  • Squeakthrough
  • ToDo list
  • Attach Notes
  • Sound On Rotate
• Visual enhancements;
  • Realistic Ores
  • Alien Biomes HD

As you might imagine, spaghetti is inevitable on such a map

If you are asking about stdlib, I have done little more than browse the diffs between it and the published factorio repositories on GitHub looking for potential clashes. Detailed testing has not been undertaken, so I cannot confirm, nor recommend a forced update to 0.18.

As @BlueTemplar rightly says -

Give him time, it has only been 3 days !
"Only" "17%" of mods have been updated so far, and a standard library like this is likely to need even more time to do properly !
And he pretty much has to, considering how many mods depend on his !

As far as 0.17.xx goes, the current version of Py Suite will continue to run without problems. We will have to move to 0.18 if we want to enjoy PyAl by the looks of things, unless it is possible to backport it to the current stable 17.79?

[Edit - missed the most important helper mod of all - Sound On Rotate ]

[aklesey1]

So when to wait update of all py suite for 0.18& And how Nexela's work going with stlib?

[chrisdec]

So when to wait update of all py suite for 0.18& And how Nexela's work going with stlib?

stlib is .18 now

[aklesey1]

That's good, waiting for py-suite for 0.18 for now

[Squelch]

Py graphics packs started to be uploaded as of 13 minutes ago for anyone interested.

[aklesey1]

Its all good but i'll still need 2 mods for 0.18
What is it really used for?
And
Recipe Explorer
I'm using both of them
Creative mod is already updated

[kingarthur]

Its all good but i'll still need 2 mods
What is it really used for?
And
Recipe Explorer
I'm using both of them

what is it really used for just needs a number change

[aklesey1]

Another useful mod is BeastFinder - https://mods.factorio.com/mod/BeastFinder
Useful for huge factories with many chains and chests

[Mella]

How your beta test going with PYAL? Release will be soon?

[BlueTemplar]

I had a quick look at the PyAL showcase videos (thanks, Otaku Showboat !), and I'm amazed - it's even more massive than I thought !

Dancing cats ! Giant Worms ! Acid-making Xenomorphs !
Also, being to be able to eventually produce "health packs" in the form of cultivated fish (?) - just like you can in Angel's - is great !

Speaking of showcases, looks like Factorio will soon need some quick showcase videos like this one, just to illustrate all the diversity out there ?

----

However, I'm slightly concerned about the start of the game :
In 0.16, setting up your first red science was much harder than in other mods, but still fairly feasible, you "only" needed to set up :
- Aside from the usual vanilla drills and furnaces, and electric power, already much more expensive due to the 1/8 plate/ore starting ratios,
- One Destructive Distillation Column (280 copper, 160 iron, 0.5 raw wood) for coke.

- Find a (non-starting?) tin ore patch, pipe steam to it (or water, and boil it in-place), and smelt some tin plates. This was fun, though YMMV if it involved taking down a small biter nest, doing this with just your light armor (320 iron, wears down fairly quickly), iron axe, pistol, very expensive (84 ore per mag of 10 bullets) or cheaty (on respawn) yellow ammo and some precious fish might either feel like a big achievement for some people or feel like an impossible task for others.

- Make a Soil Extractor (624 iron, 440 copper, 50 tin, 10 stone, 1.6 raw wood).
- Make a Fawogae Plantation (600 copper, 440 iron, 250 tin, 300 soil, 151 raw wood - that's 39 live trees already, you lumberjack ! )
- One Crystal Mine - the trick here is to re-use the previous soil extractor, now that it has extracted plenty of soil, for "only" (920 copper, 640 iron, 3.9 wood) total.

Plop down that mine, smelt some glass, and you can start to handcraft that red science at the rate of 1 for 40 quartz, 3.3 raw wood, and 2.78 coal !

And early and really important techs like Automation (includes long-handed inserters !), Turrets, Walls, Submachine Gun (not Shotgun yet, as shotgun shells require Lead) are all fairly cheap at 10 red science each !

Now, even this was "enough" to have some new players quickly "noping" out of playing Py.

From that preview, for Py(AL), in 0.18 :
Each red science bottle now also requires ~40 iron and copper ore ?
You now need a dozen non-optional buildings just to handcraft red science ?! (With correspondingly higher resource requirements than in 0.16 ?)
And also you need Aluminium to make buildings for red science now ? (Which AFAIK isn't a starting ore either, and requires setting up coal gas just to be able to mine it !)
Aren't you afraid that even more players are going to straight out "nope out" as soon as they see what they need for red science ?
(At least in 0.16, the scaling from no science to red to green (and "I'll deal with blue later"), while fairly steep, still felt "achievable" for a brand new Py player ?)

And remember that it has to be playable on default settings, with vanilla map generator - leaving players with the bare minimum to be able to deal with biters for so long risks compounding this issue ?

Ok, in some ways, 0.17 got easier : being able to dodge worm attacks, indestructible armor & pickaxes... but still, imagine both tin and aluminium have nests on them, are fairly far away, and you had the bad luck of starting with hardly any fish nearby...
(Ok, I would probably just restart when seeing a starting area like that... but what about less experienced people ?)

(I don't remember, IIRC there were plans for more biter interaction - weapons, biters dropping resources... were these postponed as being too ambitious - for now ?)

----

P.S.: Did I get this right : you're going to need on average 64 MILLION animal "modules" Mk1 for a SINGLE animal "module" Mk4 ?!?!!.

[Squelch]

echoing my thoughts

Yes, I must admit to simply saying "wibble!?!?" upon seeing the showcase too.

I relish the added complexity, but also fear it might be just that bit too much for new-ish players in the early game. I'm still eager to see just how it plays out, so reserve final judgment for now.