Hot beverage recipe takedown?

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golfmiketango
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Hot beverage recipe takedown?

Post by golfmiketango »

Hey, just stumbled onto Xterminator's reddit weekly summary (https://youtu.be/acgBxYViK9w) where he in turns stumbles onto this deviantart coffee mug. The author of the mug design seems to believe that Wube requested some sort of copyright takedown against his creation.

That really doesn't sound like the Wube software I am familiar with, plus, as Xterminator points out in his video, that's crazy-talk. If this is legit, and you guys have gone full "IP troll", then, wow, bummer (nb: IANAL, not even in my home country, much less Canada (where the guy who made this lives) or the Czech Republic, but I'm pretty sure it's not defensible on IP legality grounds).

But, since I doubt it, I'm sure this guy would appreciate it if someone got in touch with him via deviantart, or sent a thanks-but-please-don't-take-that-one-down request to the deviantart IP enforcement robot overseers, or both. Figured I'd bring it to your attention, here, to that end.

Thanks in advance -- for the record, I never took seriously the idea that you would do this, purposefully. Presumably you took your power-armor off without considering that your takedown bots would spill out of inventory or something.

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Re: Hot beverage recipe takedown?

Post by jitarihu »

Hey, thank you for the post. Lendmine752 has already reached to me, and I have answered to him what action has been taken and why, and feel I should explain it here to you too.

I have indeed asked a couple of online stores (as Redbubble for example) to remove some of the Factorio merchandise products for sale. But the merch stores went a bit too far and took down much more items that I asked them to do. I have asked them to remove just product directly linked with Factorio - the ones which contained Factorio logo to be more specific. And this is what happened to those mugs. I have never initiated anything against products like this, and to be frank - I love them and wouldn't mind having one of them myself.

Here is what I answered to Lendmine752:
Thank you for reaching out to us regarding this topic.

My name is Jitka, and I am the one who has asked the RedBubble store to remove all the products which contained Factorio logo.

First, let me express my gratitude for your passion for Factorio. We know the game wouldn't be where it is without people like you.

I understand what you are saying regarding having a broader variant of Factorio merchandise. I know the community is asking for it and trust me; we are working on it. But unfortunately, merchandise is doesn't have a number one priority for us at this moment, 1.0 has.

We are planning to produce other Factorio merchandise, but after a long debate we had within our team, we have decided to do it ourselves - at least for now. One of the reasons to support this decision is that this way, we can have control over the quality of the products.

We do not mind if someone is making Factorio themed cups or t-shirts for himself and his loved ones, as long as it is not meant for sale. When someone asks us for graphics as they want to create a personalised gift for a friend etc. we never said no, as far as I am aware.

I am open to hearing any proposals you might have regarding this topic.

Kind regards,

Jitka

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Re: Hot beverage recipe takedown?

Post by golfmiketango »

Hmm, so, basically, you've gone full IP troll but you're doing it exceedingly respectfully? The guy has simply referred to the color scheme and styling of certain factorio GUI elements in order to make a joke. Unless I'm missing something (and tbc I may well be) it looks like a textbook example of fair-use. (disclaimer: I still am not a lawyer).

As for quality, the images look awfully nice... judging by your statements, you never sampled the product before shutting the guy down, so, who knows? These could be trash with stick-on labels that come off as soon as you get them hot, or they could be beautifully machine-painted and glazed items. Depends on the guys supply chain. But if quality is your concern, it doesn't sound like that was ever addressed.

Is it possible that the mugs looked too good and this worried you in some way? I know sometimes C&D's are a knee-jerk reaction to high-quality fan art (the examples that come to mind are all pretty gross). This is like saying "fan art is OK, with just one provisio: it has to suck."

If you're saying that you asked a third party to open a can of whoop-ass, due to certain fourth parties, who were doing some egregious stuff, and this guy is collateral damage, OK, I totally understand that. But now that it's been brought to your attention, you've chosen to... take no further action?

Well it's your company, not mine. That's about as much pressure as I'm willing to bring to bear, on the guy's behalf (FTR I have zero stake in any of this). You should do whatever you think is right from a CR/marketing/branding perspective, I suppose. Apparently right now that is asking this guy to stop selling mugs. I think something like this could have a chilling effect on fan art, going forward, but that is just a hunch.

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Re: Hot beverage recipe takedown?

Post by jitarihu »

Dear golfmiketango,

Thank you for your comment.

The only action done from my side was against unofficial merchandise which contained Factorio logo. Nothing else. So if there were, for example, hoodies for sale with Factorio logo on them, those were the products I have been targeting to be removed from the sale websites.

No action has been taken against any Factorio themed products (as those mugs) or any other products. We are happy to see the creativity of Factorio community.

Hope I made myself a bit clearer.

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Re: Hot beverage recipe takedown?

Post by golfmiketango »

jitarihu wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:48 am
Dear golfmiketango,

Thank you for your comment.

The only action done from my side was against unofficial merchandise which contained Factorio logo. Nothing else. So if there were, for example, hoodies for sale with Factorio logo on them, those were the products I have been targeting to be removed from the sale websites.

No action has been taken against any Factorio themed products (as those mugs) or any other products. We are happy to see the creativity of Factorio community.

Hope I made myself a bit clearer.
Respectfully, I don't think you have. Here is the guy's creation:
automated_hot_beverage_recipes_by_landmine752_ddnxxc8-fullview.jpg
automated_hot_beverage_recipes_by_landmine752_ddnxxc8-fullview.jpg (70.41 KiB) Viewed 1653 times
It's called "automated hot beverage recipes". So it contains neither the word 'Factorio' nor an image of the factorio logo. I could quote his page, where he basically says "Sorry, no longer available. Wube asked me to take this down, so I did" but that's not necessary, as, if I understand you above, you already stated that this was an official Wube request.

So, an action absolutely was taken against him. The action was not, strictly speaking, legal action. But when (comparatively) big company "A" says to random internet user "B," 'Hey, there, friend! We think you should take this fan art down, because we consider it our intellectual property. Thanks for your efforts and fandom, though, we really appreciate it!' it's safe for random user "B" to assume, no matter how nicely the letter was was worded, that if random user "B" doesn't do as company "A" is asking, some sort of actual courtroom legal claim is fairly likely to follow, after a series of escalations involving more and more lawyers over time.

Again, maybe -- hopefully -- I'm missing something, here, in which case I apologize for the misunderstanding. But as I understand things now, I find it hard to understand Wube's side of this.

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Re: Hot beverage recipe takedown?

Post by golfmiketango »

You know what, it's really not fair of me to keep pleading this guy's case because he himself didn't ask for this (quite the opposite).

I intended to bring this to your attention because I thought there had been a mistake. But as apparently there was no mistake (edit: apparently I'm wrong about "no mistake") there is really nothing for us to talk about. I'm not going to remove my posts, above, because I stand behind everything I've said. But I also am going to try to resist the urge to discuss this any further.

I believe my input has been clear, but it's really not fair to continue talking about a business matter that's literally none of my business. Especially as the guy has stated he's OK with Wube's take-down. I should really respect that, regardless of how it makes me feel.
Last edited by golfmiketango on Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Klonan
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Re: Hot beverage recipe takedown?

Post by Klonan »

golfmiketango wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:59 pm
Respectfully, I don't think you have. Here is the guy's creation:

*snip*...

Again, maybe -- hopefully -- I'm missing something, here, in which case I apologize for the misunderstanding. But as I understand things now, I find it hard to understand Wube's side of this.
Just to clarify, we made no specific action against the hot beverage posts, I actually thought they were wonderful and shared them in the office

What happened is that there were a lot of rip-off t-shirts on redbubble and other websites, essentially just copy-pasting our logo onto their store page:
Image

So we sent an email to redbubble saying, "Hello, this is our trademarked logo, please take down the t-shirts and things using the Factorio logo, because it is unauthorized use of our trademark".
(Note we did not say copyright or IP, just trademark logo)

We also provided links to specific sellers and specific product listings, and things such as the Hot beverage artwork were not in that list.



And so then they replied saying "Ok we have looked and taken down the things".



We did not intend to take down any individuals own work they have done, such as the hot beverage art, or other fan creations, for instance a randoms guys t-shirt with a normal looking Factory was also taken down

We only wanted the t-shirts and mugs which had a copy of our trademarked logo removed from sale.

If those artists would like to rehost their artwork and receive any hassle from the storefront, send us an email and we can try to sort it out, we don't want to infringe on other peoples rights when it comes to selling their own artwork and designs.

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Re: Hot beverage recipe takedown?

Post by golfmiketango »

Klonan wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:50 pm
We only wanted the t-shirts and mugs which had a copy of our trademarked logo removed from sale.

If those artists would like to rehost their artwork and receive any hassle from the storefront, send us an email and we can try to sort it out, we don't want to infringe on other peoples rights when it comes to selling their own artwork and designs.
Understood, it's a standard example of computers helping humans to fail to communicate in various ways with an end result that someone (me in this case) is mad at someone else (non-existent Wube IP policy enforcers) for no good reason :)

FTR this clarification does make me feel better about this! But I promised to shut up about it so I will now.

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Re: Hot beverage recipe takedown?

Post by Optera »

Now I want 1 or 2 of those coffee cups myself.
Maybe I'll wait for you to make some official ones with updated gui design so they look even better. ;)

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