Question on Depot

[Deathxxrenegade]

Have a problem with the trains when it comes to the depot. Its the only thing I can't figure out how to stop....Screenshot included. Trains, after completing delivery.....tend to try to go to stations that already have trains....I have 76 depots and 58 trains. This blocks rails and screws stuff up until the train in the station moves, or I move it manually. How do I stop this from happening?

[Optera]

Wrong Forum. This is for LTN specific discussions only.

See https://wiki.factorio.com/Tutorial:Train_signals

[Greybeard_LXI]

I can't answer the whole question, but part of the problem is incorrect use of signals.

The signal near the top locomotive is a rail signal. This should be a rail chain signal. The chain signal does not allow a train to enter the next block unless it can also leave the block. The rail signal just makes sure the train won't hit another train in the next block. There should also be another chain signal before the junction to prevent the middle train from entering the junction.

The entrance signals to the stations are chain signals. They should be rail signals. There should be enough room for your train at the station.

I'm not sure what the chain signals are doing on the top set of rail. I suspect you wanted rail signals so the trains could get closer together; what you have keeps extra room between them.

[boskid]

.....tend to try to go to stations that already have trains....

Today i was testing a lot of rails setups and explanation is quite simple. Train wants to go to this station because it was empty when train was pathfinding. After some time other train (that was also going for given train station) that was closer, reached train station and now second train is forced to wait. It should wait 5 seconds on signal and then repath. With plain train stops it is possible to, using CN, do some tricks to force other trains to repath as soon first train enters segment with train stop.

[Nosferatu]

It's like boskid describes. No matter how I redesigned the signaling once in a while a train got stuck for 5 seconds and blocked my main rail.
As a first step i redesigned the station entrance so that trains that got stuck will not immediately clog the main line.

Depot.jpg (1.72 MiB) Viewed 5378 times

I guess future depots will get a waiting area where new trains can overtake those that got stuck...

[Frightning]

Congrats, you just learned part of why people use 'stackers' for busy rail stations.

[Nosferatu]

I use LTN Mod to avoid those stackers... Guess I have to take some time to try those CN tricks to force reroute...

[boskid]

If you want to check what i made for CN repath

stacker stop with repath

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Copy blueprint
How it works:

• when there are no trains in inner segment, only front train stop is enabled. This way evey train that wants to go to this stacker will path to front train stop
• (there is no good reason to disable second train stop, it can be always enabled)
• because front stop is enabled, there is no train-stop-on-path penalty so pathfinder does not overexpand nodes so there is no pathfinder performance penalty
• when first train enters this segment, front stop is disabled (because rail signal is now red) and second is enabled (or is always enabled)
• disabling station forces all trains with given train stop to repath
• train inside repaths to second train stop. This does not give any pathfinder performance penalty because target is 2 nodes away so search is super fast even in presence of disabled train stop in front
• all other trains with given first stop repath. They will not choose second train stop from given line because of train-stop-on-path penalty, because of train specific penalty and because of occupied block penalty. This means pathfinder will look for other, empty stacker stops

[Ezarkal]

A quick fix would be to disable any train stop where a train is present with circuit networking.
There's no combinator needed. Just hook your train stop to a single power pole with a green or red wire, then set your train stop with the following circuit settings:

-Enable/disable
-Read stopped train
-Enable signal T = 0
-Output signal T


It's not a perfect solution, since no train will be called while there a train at your station, preventing you from building a buffer... but it should help a lot against clogging the main rails, without the need to rebuild each one of your depots with stackers.

[Deathxxrenegade]

A quick fix would be to disable any train stop where a train is present with circuit networking.
There's no combinator needed. Just hook your train stop to a single power pole with a green or red wire, then set your train stop with the following circuit settings:

-Enable/disable
-Read stopped train
-Enable signal T = 0
-Output signal T


It's not a perfect solution, since no train will be called while there a train at your station, preventing you from building a buffer... but it should help a lot against clogging the main rails, without the need to rebuild each one of your depots with stackers.

I have tried that with LTN. But every time I have, the train never leaves after the station is turned off, even if its the only train to do an order.

[Optera]

It's like boskid describes. No matter how I redesigned the signaling once in a while a train got stuck for 5 seconds and blocked my main rail.
As a first step i redesigned the station entrance so that trains that got stuck will not immediately clog the main line.

Depot.jpg

I guess future depots will get a waiting area where new trains can overtake those that got stuck...

With that stacker design it's very likely trains park at signals long enough for train_waiting_at_signal_tick_multiplier_penalty to get larger than penalties of completely filled tracks.

See my post here about originally finding this behavior: viewtopic.php?p=382712#p382712
And my request to add an upper limit to train_waiting_at_signal_tick_multiplier_penalty: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=64564&p=395524

Currently the only real solution is to set train_waiting_at_signal_tick_multiplier_penalty = 0 with mods like Pathological.

[mrvn]

It's like boskid describes. No matter how I redesigned the signaling once in a while a train got stuck for 5 seconds and blocked my main rail.
As a first step i redesigned the station entrance so that trains that got stuck will not immediately clog the main line.

Depot.jpg

I guess future depots will get a waiting area where new trains can overtake those that got stuck...

You can use a pass-through station at the exit of the stacker or entry to your stops so all paths go to a single station. Once the train reaches that station it decides where to go next, at which point no other train can get ahead of it and take the station it sees as free.

Alternatively you can use a circuit controlled signal to force a repath.

[Ezarkal]

A quick fix would be to disable any train stop where a train is present with circuit networking.
There's no combinator needed. Just hook your train stop to a single power pole with a green or red wire, then set your train stop with the following circuit settings:

-Enable/disable
-Read stopped train
-Enable signal T = 0
-Output signal T


It's not a perfect solution, since no train will be called while there a train at your station, preventing you from building a buffer... but it should help a lot against clogging the main rails, without the need to rebuild each one of your depots with stackers.

I have tried that with LTN. But every time I have, the train never leaves after the station is turned off, even if its the only train to do an order.

I do have a setup so my trains leave when my stations are full. Link whatever storage you use to the input of a decider combinator next to your train stop. Set the combinator so whenever your storage reach a certain amount (whatever maximum you want it to hold), it outputs a signal to your train. (I personally use the checkmark). Then, when you setup your train, it's leave conditions should be "-when cargo is empty OR -when checkmark > 0"

I usually combine that with shutting my stations down when they are about 1 train from being full, so that no extra train will come and queue up while the last train finishes unloading. You could combine this system and the one shutting down your station while a train is present using an AND switch.