GG's Starlog 10 - FactoRadio

[GG Cannon]

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Entry Number: 10 - [Creation: 12/01/2020 || Last update: 12/01/2020]

                                          Wireless Circuitry

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• Long distance wireless signal input & output via radio waves
  1 new researchable technology, 2 new objects
  
  • Techonology - Radio Waves:
    
    • Required Technologies:
      Circuit Network + Electric energy distribution 2
    • Research:
      45 + [ + + ] * 150
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  • Radio Transceiver:
    
    Input/Output Device. Must be inside an energy grid's effect area.
    Connect a wire to the input source or output destination and left click the Transceiver to open settings window.
    Choose a 4 digit frequency different from 000.0 and either AM or FM modulation.
    18000 Possible different frequencies.
    
    • Wireless Signal Transmission Area: 50x50.
      Can't do both Transmission and Receiving of signals at the same time.
    Crafting Recipe:
    0.5 + 5 + 10
    
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  • Radio Tower:
    
    Input/Output & Relay Repeater. Must be connected to an energy grid by a copper wire. Also works as a Big Electric Pole.
    Set as either Transceiver or Relay Repeater in settings window.
    In Transceiver mode, will work the same as the Radio Transceiver above, but can receive a signal in one frequency and transmit another signal in a different or the same frequency at the same time.
    In Relay Repeater mode it will repeat every signal in every frequency in the area which it is inside of.
    • Wireless Signal Transmission Area: 150x150.
    • Wire Reach: 75 tiles.
    • Electricity Supply Area: 18×18 tiles
    Crafting Recipe:
    0.5 + 1 + 10 + 20
    
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  Predicted Usefulness:
  1. Getting 2 or more bases very far apart synchronized together through a long distance circuit network, for example, with long distance supply lines based on need instead of on time.
  2. Keeping a factory more organized with less circuit network wires everywhere.

[ssilk]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/shortwave
That mod I tested and I like it, even if it has some problems with blueprints ( does not connect wires for bp)

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/WirelessNetworks
I cannot say anything about it.

[Pi-C]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/shortwave
That mod I tested and I like it, even if it has some problems with blueprints ( does not connect wires for bp)

As far as I know, it transmits everywhere on the map (haven't tested this with different surfaces yet), not over a limited distance as required in the original post:

[*]Radio Transceiver:
Input/Output Device. Must be inside an energy grid's effect area.
Connect a wire to the input source or output destination and left click the Transceiver to open settings window.
Choose a 4 digit frequency different from 000.0 and either AM or FM modulation.
18000 Possible different frequencies.

• Wireless Signal Transmission Area: 50x50.
  Can't do both Transmission and Receiving of signals at the same time.

[ssilk]

Why should it be limited? It makes no sense. and only 50 tiles? Two wires with big poles? Come on...

Radio device is suggested since ... forever, I think since circuits where implemented. V0.8? Doesn’t matter. What I want to say: some wanted limited range. But such a range should be large, minimum 150-250 tiles, the other mod I linked has 400 tiles or so; but for Factorio it means a quadratic field, inside you have contact, outside not. What sense would that be, what game mechanics could make this placing outside useful? How will you measure that it is in- or outside? Connected with what? How will you place that, without minimap (because the range should be about the size of the minimap )? Why should it limited at all? Ok, it should be limited to the surface, of course. And compared to real physics: With short waves and good weather you can send Hello around the world

And what I also thought: Wouldn’t it make sense to send signals to other players you cannot see yet and are really far away? Or (if not limited to surface only) have a simple connection to another planet?

But ok: why limited? What Game-Play value would such a limit have? What would be better than without?

[Pi-C]

Why should it be limited? It makes no sense. and only 50 tiles? Two wires with big poles? Come on...

Frankly, I don't know -- I also prefer it the way Shortwave does it (signals transmittable everywhere). But this limit was explicitly mentioned in the original posting, so perhaps GG Cannon has some need for it?

And what I also thought: Wouldn’t it make sense to send signals to other players you cannot see yet and are really far away?

Don't know, I've never played in singleplayer mode yet.

Or (if not limited to surface only) have a simple connection to another planet?

Oh, I don't deny that unlimited transmission is useful! Combined with a mod similar to Autodrive, you could even use it to control a fleet of space ships.

[GG Cannon]

Why should it be limited? It makes no sense. and only 50 tiles? Two wires with big poles? Come on...

Realism and immersion.
50 tiles is only the small and weak power-output radio while the high power-output one is at least 3 times as strong.
Those were just some arbitrary values I set as example and should not be taken at face value. I only used the roboports supply area range as a base value.

A radio wave communication has a distance limit set by its frequency and power output.
The more watts a radio has, the farther it can transmit. So the idea that the tower would send the signal farther is that it would also consume more power.

"In telecommunications, particularly in radio frequency, signal strength (also referred to as field strength) refers to the transmitter power output as received by a reference antenna at a distance from the transmitting antenna." [Wikipedia]

Coverage estimates: At full power, line-of-sight, no obstructions the range is approximately 4+ miles. Indoor coverage at VHF is approximately 270,000 sq ft and 300,000 sq ft at UHF. Expect about 20 floors vertical coverage at VHF and up to 30 floors at UHF.

Considering the interference and barriers that might be caused by whatever is constructed between an the amount of trees, walls and et cetera on average is why I set that value, as it is bigger than the smallest possible radio range but smaller than the biggest possible radio range, even considering the area as a square and not a pixelated circle.


The thing about my suggestions for the game is that I never think or consider mods as just as I believe many people will, I am playing the game solely full vanilla trying to launch at least 1 rocket and also trying to get as many achievements on steam as possible while at it.

When I give a suggestion, I am thinking on how to improve at the vanilla experience for those that don't wish for mods or don't have the habit of downloading and experimenting with mods.

That's also the base for my suggestion on "modular gaming", so that the vanilla game may grow together with the modding community and even those that don't download mods may benefit later on from truly exceptional mods while the developers of said mods be rewarded for their efforts and achievements officially.

[ssilk]

Well, that is your opinion and I respect that. Mine is different and that is good so. To be more detailed:

Realism: 1. UKW-Waves can be send in Kilometers, not meters. 2. Do you really think that a primtive radio in the 23th century will send signals by frequency? I don't think. They will send signals more like wlan / mobile transmissions.

Immersion: I tried nearly all of the mods that send signals without wires. And those which limited the range where not fun. The limitation in range lays on hand, but playing with it doesn't make much fun.

[davidhjf]

GG Conan made a very detailed example on how a wireless radio would look like, which is great. Details aside, any wireless radio would be a big plus to the circuit network.

There are some obstacles with current circuit network:
1. With only two color cables, if you want to transmit signals of one item, say steel-plate, in multiple networks, you risk mixing them up.
2. Multiple networks physically cross each other, leaving a mess. So, it takes much time to find the right network from only two-color cables.
3. When you want to tell what objects a chest is connected to, it takes a lot of time.

With a radio, however, thing would go much easier:
1. Instead of two-color wires carrying only two channels, now you can have thousands of frequency, or channels. So signals of same items don't interfere with each other.
2. Without physical wires, screen is much cleaner, and you can find things with more ease.
3. You can have an object connected to more than 2 networks, leaving more possibilities to make complex signal network.


As for the current mods, they all have some prominent limitations as stated by ssilk.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/shortwave
That mod I tested and I like it, even if it has some problems with blueprints ( does not connect wires for bp)

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/WirelessNetworks
I cannot say anything about it.

[ssilk]

For the shortwave mod I don’t see any limitations. Especially the case you described is solved elegantly, the “frequencies” or better “channels” are just items, which has the advantage that the item is also the “description” what this “channel” means. You have some dozens of items and there is really no need to have thousands, in practice when you have 50 different networks/frequencies it is really, really big (until someone proves, that he really needs more). This also has the advantage, that a rewrite of that mod (I think if there is a modder, which searches for a nice work, this is it, because it is a bit broken - but conceptually the best in my opinion) can give it the possibility to change the “channels” by changing the ingoing item (it has a second input for setting the channel).

I also doubt, that without wires you find things easier. I think the opposite is the case. Cables a such a natural way to follow signal flow. Frequencies are not.

Yes, the current display of networks is a real mess. But there are suggestions which are about having a special view mode, that displays the circuits more schematic. E.g. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41176 Improve Basic Circuit Overview

3. You can have an object connected to more than 2 networks, leaving more possibilities to make complex signal network

Why? I don’t see the need for that.