Request Sanity Check (Factory Size)

[Greybeard_LXI]

I am planning a big (to me) factory using 10,000 science per hour and would like someone to confirm if I am in the right ball park with how big it will be.

I used Kirk McDonald's Factorio Calculator to get a size estimate.
https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.htm ... H9N+ncpy8=

My data entered was
Science pack 1 factories 20
science pack 2 factories 24
Chemical science pack factories 48
Production science pack factories 28
Hi Tech science pack factories 28
Assembly machine 2
zero mining productivity bonus
Rocket Silo 1
No modules or beacons

This calculated 180 science packs (each) per minute and I would need 969 miners for Iron Ore and 1070 miners for Copper Ore.

I probably will use modules, and possibly beacons. I've already got some mining bonuses.

Does this sound reasonable for these assumptions? It looks like a lot to me, but probably almost nothing to a lot of you.

[TruePikachu]

Firstly, note that 10000/h uses e.g. 18.6 factories for science pack 1. Secondly, note that these particular calculations are done with the tier 2 assembly machines; if you opt for tier 3 instead, you only need 60% of the machines. Thirdly, note that the miner counts (by default) don't take into account any productivity research; the number needed decreases as productivity increases.

[Serenity]

I probably will use modules, and possibly beacons. I've already got some mining bonuses.

Then you need to take that into account. It changes the numbers drastically all down the line. For example productivity modules in the rocket silo means 40% less materials there alone. And then to produce materials for that you again have productivity bonuses at almost every step.

So use Assembly Machine 3 with PM3 and then either 8 or 12 beacons per machine (which is 16 or 24 SM3 in the calculator!):
https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.htm ... Ab+E39DvgN
And suddenly you only need a handful of science assemblers. Copper ore consumption is reduced hugely because you get a lot of productivity in the circuit chain

As an alternative to beacons, what also works well at a smaller scale like this is 3 PM3 and 1 SM3. The single speed module almost compensates for the slowdown:
https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.htm ... YfFe+Avw==
I'd only use that for the science production though. Circuits, rocket supplies and oil would still be beaconed. Even then you need a lot more modules with this approach. See blue science for example

And yeah, you'll need a lot of mining, but mining productivity eventually helps with that

[astroshak]

A 40% increase in Productivity means a about a 28% reduction in materials needed. For every 5 you produce, you got a bonus 2, for a total of 7. 2/7 is roughly 28%.

[TruePikachu]

Additionally, an increase of productivity from modules results in needing more of that particular machine in order to get the same output rate (due to the speed reduction)...unless you also mix in speed modules, which easily cancel out that speed reduction while still giving the bonus outputs.

[DRY411S]

I am planning a big (to me) factory using 10,000 science per hour and would like someone to confirm if I am in the right ball park with how big it will be.

I used Kirk McDonald's Factorio Calculator to get a size estimate.
https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.htm ... H9N+ncpy8=

My data entered was
Science pack 1 factories 20
science pack 2 factories 24
Chemical science pack factories 48
Production science pack factories 28
Hi Tech science pack factories 28
Assembly machine 2
zero mining productivity bonus
Rocket Silo 1
No modules or beacons

This calculated 180 science packs (each) per minute and I would need 969 miners for Iron Ore and 1070 miners for Copper Ore.

I probably will use modules, and possibly beacons. I've already got some mining bonuses.

Does this sound reasonable for these assumptions? It looks like a lot to me, but probably almost nothing to a lot of you.

Firstly, note that 10000/h uses e.g. 18.6 factories for science pack 1. Secondly, note that these particular calculations are done with the tier 2 assembly machines; if you opt for tier 3 instead, you only need 60% of the machines. Thirdly, note that the miner counts (by default) don't take into account any productivity research; the number needed decreases as productivity increases.

Like TruePikachu says, your numbers are a bit off. Your words seem to suggest that you have typed in the number of machines you *think* you need. In fact it's easier to type in the amount of science you want, and let the calculator work out how many machines.

Using your baseline, (level 2 machines, no minig productivity, 1 silo, no modules or beacons) gives this: https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.htm ... pvjeMsWdIf

I don't know if it was deliberate, but you missed off military science. Maybe you're playing without biters.

Edit: Maybe you meant 10,800 per hour which is another 8% Production. A silo cannot produce that much space science per minute, you'll need more than 1. 10,000 is doable with 1 silo, 10,800 is not. You will also need over 900 steam engines to power the factory.

[Premu]

You should definetly think about using productivity and speed modules. For example - just adding two productivity modules Level 3 in each lab will give you 20% more effective research, so you only need to produce 8333.3 science per hour instead of 10 000.

Add productivity modules to other expensive recipes like blue circiuts, and you can cut down your resource costs even further.

For example in my current factory I aim for 1 rocket launch per minute, and want use productivity modules in every production wherever possible. For miners I'll use one productivity and two speed modules. Overall I'll need less miners than you have calculated.

Of course - these modules, especially level 3, are very expensive. If you actually plan to build a factory using a lot of beacons and with productivity modules whereever possible, you will most likely wait for those modules to be finished, while your machines and miners are far easier and fasetr to be produced. On the other hand you need far less miners and thus far less land to supply your factory.

[Greybeard_LXI]

Thanks for the help everyone. It looks like I almost used the tool right. I didn't know I could enter how many items per hour I wanted, so I estimated until I got just more than one rocket silo could generate.

My goal is to use all the science generated by 10 rockets per hour.

I do not have biters (or cliffs). I also didn't realize that there was an infinite science option for military. I'll have to think about adding one of the artillery infinite researches.

Since I posted the question I've been redesigning my smelter setup. I don't think my previous head in/ bi-directional 1-2-1 trains is going to work for 25-30 yellow belts of copper smelting. 1-3 will fit in with the rest of the trains and will be a whole lot more convenient.

I guess the real insanity would be trying to use this much science without modules.

[Serenity]

It's generally better to use powers of 2 (2, 4, 8, 16) for easier balancing of belts.

With the rocket silo numbers keep in mind that you can use speed beacons there too to speed things up a bit. If you somehow need 1.1 silos you can just use a single beacon