pY Coal Processing - Discussion

[Squelch]

Besides the minor complaint about communicating changes to the players/testers, I should also supply some feedback on another aspect that I have noticed.

It concerns graphics, Z-Ordering specifically.

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Tailings pond is masking some parts of vanilla objects too. eg. wooden power poles, but not the cable hangers at the top.

Also, while it doesn't just affect pYCoal, but other parts of the pY suite, I'll post this feedback/request here:

Tall buildings hide what is immediately behind them, and I have often failed to make a fluid or belt connection as a result - pipes and belts do not highlight the connection in the same manner as inserters - They also hide supply lines running parallel to these buildings. The Tholin collector does have a nice feature where the balloon fades in and out with the zoom level. Extending this feature to the taller buildings allowing us to see behind at high zoom levels, would make life a great deal easier.

[ShadowGlass]

I think the science change is a very good idea. Generally the cb2 in blue science is too much of a brick wall for a lot of people, at least this way you're a little bit prepared (yes, cb2 is still a much bigger chain than cb1, but every little bit helps).
You can and you should automate cb1 very early in the game. It's not simple, but it's very much doable with just red science. Very early in red science actually. I don't understand this talk about a trap.

[Crixomix]

Shadow, I agree with the change. I think that Circ1 being part of Sci2 makes sense. Automating circ1 is very important.

However, I do think Sci2 should be made slightly cheaper in other areas to compensate for the increased cost.

[Pridesfall]

Shadow, I agree with the change. I think that Circ1 being part of Sci2 makes sense. Automating circ1 is very important.

However, I do think Sci2 should be made slightly cheaper in other areas to compensate for the increased cost.

For my two cents, I don't think the Sci2 costs are high so I'm ok with how it is. It will also probably be a lot different once Alien Life is out.

[BlueTemplar]

The issue is (was?) that automated circuits 1 are not only much, MUCH harder to make than hand-crafted ones
(and remember that science1 only means that iron, copper but especially steel are very expensive !),
but are (were?) also more expensive too !

In 0.16.51 Py, it's 5 copper plates (& some wood) per circuit1 for the handcraft, but :
4.13 copper, 1.5 iron, 1.07 tin, 1 glass and ~24 MJ (& stuff) for the automated version !
(Admittedly, you also get lots of various byproducts, but they don't really seem to compensate ?)

[Squelch]

I think the science change is a very good idea. Generally the cb2 in blue science is too much of a brick wall for a lot of people, at least this way you're a little bit prepared (yes, cb2 is still a much bigger chain than cb1, but every little bit helps).
You can and you should automate cb1 very early in the game. It's not simple, but it's very much doable with just red science. Very early in red science actually. I don't understand this talk about a trap.

Absolutely! In fact, I have been building Circuit Board 1 chains quite early in my previous games, but tried a new tack this time because it appeared to be cheaper.

The issue is (was?) that automated circuits 1 are not only much, MUCH harder to make than hand-crafted ones
(and remember that science1 only means that iron, copper but especially steel are very expensive !),
but are (were?) also more expensive too !

I'd drawn that conclusion, so on this playthrough where real estate is limited, I had deferred building over needed resource patches. Pocket construction seemed more appealing in the meantime. This sudden change caught me out however, and my initial reaction was that of pure frustration because I was at just the wrong stage of development.

The challenge has been accepted, and I decided not to revert the recipe requirement afterall.

[Vasht]

Hello,

First Time py mod player so please excuse my questions...

I just used py coal and py Industrie to get a feeling for all of the complexity. (No other py mods, only qol mods)

I reached the third science pack and can't find a way to get nexelite (just with research, which needs science pack 3)

Could Someone give me a hint, where i missed the right recipe?

[Squelch]

I reached the third science pack and can't find a way to get nexelite (just with research, which needs science pack 3)

Could Someone give me a hint, where i missed the right recipe?

There should be some Nexelite reserves further away from your starting location. You may need to explore some to find them.

It is possible to reclaim some Nexelite ore from waste materials.

Hint: Take a look at the Tailings chain.

HTH.

[Blokus]

Hello,

First Time py mod player so please excuse my questions...

I just used py coal and py Industrie to get a feeling for all of the complexity. (No other py mods, only qol mods)

I reached the third science pack and can't find a way to get nexelite (just with research, which needs science pack 3)

Could Someone give me a hint, where i missed the right recipe?

Tailings -> nexelit + tailings dust in an evaporator is the only way to get raw nexelit without a megamine. Conveniently this is also the fastest way to be rid of tailings, even faster than a sinkhole.

[BugFactory]

I'm not sure whether it's a bug or not, but I was disappointed when I noticed that a Niobium Mine on a Niobium Ore patch resulted in roughly the same amount of Niobium Ore produced per consumed Drill Head than a Ground Borer. It also seems to be slower. I tested it by measuring the output when supplying 3 Drill Heads (minimum for Ground Borer) and the result was 15 for Ground Borer as expected and 16 for the Niobium Mine (with 10% mining efficiency bonus).
There is a recipe for Niobium Ore which uses RefSynGas and would result in 12 Ore per Drill Head but for some reason it seems not to be what my Niobium Mine uses.
If this remains unchanged I don't see a point in conquering and defending Niobium Ore patches when you can get the same result at roughly the same tech level everywhere with a Ground Borer.

Thanks for this great Mod series, I enjoy the challenge to puzzle all production chains together. I just hoped I could boost my Niobium production for the Niobium-hungry Production Science Pack.

Factorio Version: 0.17.79
PyCP Version: 1.5.0
also enabled PyRO, PyHT, PyFE (not PyPH, PyAL)

[ShadowGlass]

I'm not sure whether it's a bug or not, but I was disappointed when I noticed that a Niobium Mine on a Niobium Ore patch resulted in roughly the same amount of Niobium Ore produced per consumed Drill Head than a Ground Borer. It also seems to be slower. I tested it by measuring the output when supplying 3 Drill Heads (minimum for Ground Borer) and the result was 15 for Ground Borer as expected and 16 for the Niobium Mine (with 10% mining efficiency bonus).
There is a recipe for Niobium Ore which uses RefSynGas and would result in 12 Ore per Drill Head but for some reason it seems not to be what my Niobium Mine uses.
If this remains unchanged I don't see a point in conquering and defending Niobium Ore patches when you can get the same result at roughly the same tech level everywhere with a Ground Borer.

Thanks for this great Mod series, I enjoy the challenge to puzzle all production chains together. I just hoped I could boost my Niobium production for the Niobium-hungry Production Science Pack.

Factorio Version: 0.17.79
PyCP Version: 1.5.0
also enabled PyRO, PyHT, PyFE (not PyPH, PyAL)

Yep, I've done the same experiment, and without the mining productivity bonus, the mine only produces 14 ores from 3 drill heads. For comparison a Molybdenum mine produces 101 ores from 3 drill heads.

Let's do some math:

• Niobium ore has mining time 300%, and Niobium mine has mining speed of 1. So by default, you get 0.333 ore/s.
• Drill head is 2 MJ fuel, and the Niobium mine consumes 550 kW with 400% efficiency, so 550/4 = 137.5 kW
• Therefore one drill head lasts for 2000 / 137.5 = 14.54 seconds
• 14.54 s * 0.333 ore/s = 4.84 ore / drill head (for 3 drill head it's 14.54)

This is probably not intended, as it used to be different before Factorio removed Mining Hardness and Mining Power in 0.17. Looking at the files, the Niobium mine has a mining power of 3, and the ore has a mining hardness of 1.5. So using the old formula, it used to be (3 - 1.5) * 1 / 3 = 0.5 ore/s. It's not a huge difference, but the Niobium mine used to produce 50% more ores, both per second and per drill head. Before the Factorio 0.17 change, 3 drill heads would've produced 21.8 ores.
Even with that, I agree that the Niobium ground-borer is probably too good both in efficiency and speed.

Suggested fix: Change Niobium Mine mining speed to 1.5. That will get you the exact same result as it was before 0.17. Also maybe(?) nerf niobium ground borer. Simply reducing the output amount for the recipe should solve both the speed and efficiency issue.

Also, I've checked the mining output for Molybdenum with hardness/power removed, it actually got 2 times better than it was before 0.17. If you want it to be the same as before, you should set the mining speed of the moly-mine to 1.75 (from 3.5).
I haven't checked all the other py-ores, but let me know if there's interest in that. I can go over them and compare the outputs of the old pre-0.17 mining formula with the current one for each.

Btw, one thing you can do if you really want to save on drill heads, is put in efficiency modules in the mine. Since the drill head is used as fuel, with the max -80% efficiency, you can produce 5 times as much ore / drill head (also works with the big-mines and mega drill heads).

[immortal_sniper1]

or reduce by 50% mine energy usage so u use 50% less drills per ore

[BugFactory]

Btw, one thing you can do if you really want to save on drill heads, is put in efficiency modules in the mine. Since the drill head is used as fuel, with the max -80% efficiency, you can produce 5 times as much ore / drill head (also works with the big-mines and mega drill heads).

Thank you for your explanation and this hint. In vanilla I have just used these modules to reduce monster aggression and evolution, but you're right that here they can be used to drastically reduce resource consumption. Indeed at the moment saving drill heads (or more precisely iron) is very important to me as my initial iron ore patch was depleted and the way to my new one is currently too dangerous to be automated. Yeah, I am aware that there are also alternatives to get iron ore but using tar or ground borer as my main way to get iron would feel strange.

[Blokus]

The ground borer also has the problem of drilling fluid if you have PH, which effectively kills the idea of using it for niobium until very late since iirc the niobium recipe uses fluid 3. In my view the py mods balance each other together rather than really being balanced separately so this basically nixes this concern.

Eff mods are a nice fix though.

[shadowpho]

Oleochemical balances!

1) Sulfur generation nerfs from desulfirization... not sure if anybody will care. Aromatics to lubricant didn't get nerfed

Desulfirization recipe (active carbon + coal gas -> sulfur + ash + syngas) now gives less sulfur (5->1)....
Desulfirization recipe (curde_oil + iron_ore -> sulfur + ash + heavy_oil) gives less sulfur (5 -> 1.5)
Heavy oil to light oil gives less sulfur (3->2)
Petro gas and light oil also gives less sulfur

2)
Less glycerol generated but less nichrome consumed. QQ, glycerol is hard)
Added a second recipe to make only oleochemicals but only with chromium instead of nichrome.

3) double the stone brick from sand and rich-clay if you make it that way

[aklesey1]

Its looks strange with oleochemicals changing
Consumption of lard, why then, was accelerated, that is, before 20 pieces of lard was consumed within 10 seconds, and now 40 pieces of lard is consumed within 10 seconds, that is 2 times faster, probably it is necessary to increase the consumption time to 20 seconds, and then my fat just does not have time to shipped into FTS reactors
Glycerol production was nerfed in 2 times, that's sad, so i need more lard for it and of course i need more ralesias with fawogaes

[shadowpho]

Its looks strange with oleochemicals changing
Consumption of lard, why then, was accelerated, that is, before 20 pieces of lard was consumed within 10 seconds, and now 40 pieces of lard is consumed within 10 seconds, that is 2 times faster, probably it is necessary to increase the consumption time to 20 seconds, and then my fat just does not have time to shipped into FTS reactors
Glycerol production was nerfed in 2 times, that's sad, so i need more lard for it and of course i need more ralesias with fawogaes

Yep! I agree. I am going to wait to jump into next tech (production tech), switch over to thollins for glycerol and then upgrade. Glycerol is expensive...

[Squelch]

I have installed the newly released pY Coal Processing and its partner graphics package for 0.18 (pycoalprocessing_1.5.6 and pycoalprocessinggraphics_1.0.0 respectively) and get the following error.
[code]3.267 Error SoundLibrary.cpp:79: Missing sound when loading sound library: __pycoalprocessinggraphics__/sounds/advanced-foundry.ogg[/code]
Which leads to the inability to load, and needing to disable the mod.

Inspection of the graphics package shows that neither the graphics, nor sounds are present.

A further consequence, is that any other mods or dependencies that follow the references, such as squeakthrough, and other pY suite modules, are also disabled.

Nevermind. There was a subsequent update that wasn't showing for me.

[aklesey1]

Thanks for new recipe for optical fiber with 8 plastics for 3 optical fiber but updtaes from PYRO changes it back to 5 polastics for 3 optical fiber - for what? strange

[pyanodon]

Thanks for new recipe for optical fiber with 8 plastics for 3 optical fiber but updtaes from PYRO changes it back to 5 polastics for 3 optical fiber - for what? strange

will check it out. thx