The Hydra Dilemma - A Coop Factorio Playthrough!

[n9103]

Definitely coming off a bit caustic there JL.

Also, neither of those belts in the pics is actually balanced, they're just resistant to overflow on one of the sides.

...

The belts are not balanced? Really? What is the definition of balanced belts for you?

My (and most long time players') definition? Belts that remain balanced no matter the condition of input or output speeds.
I'm not really interested in the balance of the left belt vs the right belt in this case. It's the left side of the belt vs the right.
What's going on in the save is more coincidence than intention, and it's not resilient to influences on either side. The ore happens to be arriving in the right ratios on the sides of the belt. If all your miners that are putting ore on the left hand side of the belt dry up, that left hand side will dry up the whole way down.
But something that that setup is accomplishing: Increased throughput by multiplexing through multiple slow belts, rather than a single fast one. It's not particularly called for, since the entirety of the up and down stream sides aren't fast belts or better, but it's a more cost efficient belt method for longer distances.

[JoshLittle]

So what was wrong about my graphical comment that the new splitter had no effect?

[n9103]

You said it was already balanced. I merely remarked that it wasn't balanced either.

[JoshLittle]

You agree that it had no effect, right? But you also say that it was not already balanced?
Can you resolve that contradiction? I don't understand your point. What am I missing?

[Infectum13]

It hurts watching Infectum play.

I mean, seriously...

The world may never know...

[Infectum13]

You know, coming here and watching Josh rage is nearly as fun as actually playing in the hydra dilemma

hahahahah.....hmmm, so does that make US the trolls?

[Xterminator]

@xterminator:

Use it, please

• Deconstruction planer (bonus: leave it in the place of the toolbelt where it is set to be )
• Fast corners (ok, at the end you found two of them)
• Laser turrets
• Oil barrels for oil storage (ok, the production of barrels could give some trouble now that iron is so short)

12:40 is hard to understand (for me), but I think that was meant to be a comment about my comment which you apparently still misunderstand. But who cares...

For the rest I make a little quiz:

• The stuff in which types of chests are counted in the logistic system?
  provider and storage
• Where is the stuff not counted?
  Examples: Steel/iron/wood/smart/requester chests, while being on transport with robots, before picked up by robots from chests that would normaly count, in the player inventory, in chests outside the reach of the (same or connected) orange area, ...
• How many miners (without modules) are needed to reach the capacity of a slow belt?
  9? It seems to be not a full number. To fill two slow belts 44 miners are around right, but even with a sophisticated compacting technique sometimes it stucks a bit and sometimes there is a single gap. So around 22 miners for one slow belt.
• Which influence has the length of a belt to it's density?
  None!
• If the existing amount of liquid is balanced into a new storage tank, how many additional liquid is all tanks if the new tank "is getting filled up quiet quickly"?
  Short answer: Nothing! Longer answer: shurely are a few units getting pumped in because of the full pipes and the machines at the other end, but not that quickly. After the balancing in a few seconds the amount of free room in the tanks has increased by the room the new tank gives.
• If a slow belt is not completly filled, how many more stuff is transported after every tile of the belt is made out of fast belts?
  Nothing! Speed doubles, density halves, same amount of stuff is arriving at the end as before! If more stuff should arrive, put more of it on the belt. That's the only way!
• What is a bigger waste of ressources? To make
  fast corners
  or to
  speed up the whole belt
  ?
  A fast corner is never a waste of material. A faster belt most of the time.

Bonus question with a pic:

What difference makes the insertion of this splitter

Answer

None!

The part you failed to understand was a failed attempt at something I was trying to pull off/say lol but I assure you it had nothing to do with any of your comments.

[Infectum13]

Considering that the end of line is just around the corner, it makes sense to not worry about setting up another Roboport. Yes, doubling up the wall is fine. Actually, at this point in the game, should biters bother you, just go and clean them out. Besides, both oil bases are unnecessary anymore.

As for lugging the coal to the requester chest, I could see myself do just that. The fact that I'm relying on robots to travel across half my base would have irked me enough to have installed a belt by now. But, I also wouldn't have disconnected coal production in the first place (which was not obsoleted - red card!)

As for watching "the fail" (is that even American English anymore?), due to my schadenfreude, that is what I look forward to! Unfortunately, as can be expected, the players now know how to use empty barrels (properly - anyone know where the barrel went?).

As for speed modules, I totally agree. Their usefulness is limited to Beacons around research, oil wells and ingredients for items (assembler 3, armor, etc...) Productivity Modules are limited to purple potion production. And Effectivity Mods can be replaced with more power generation and biter clean up.

Great series. Thanks to all of you!

Thank you for the great feedback.

[n9103]

You agree that it had no effect, right? But you also say that it was not already balanced?
Can you resolve that contradiction? I don't understand your point. What am I missing?

Your first picture is correct, your second picture is not.
Neither splitter is actually balancing, just protecting against overflow. (And there's not point to protecting more than once between sources or sinks.)
Just because you were right that the 2nd splitter placed didn't do anything, doesn't mean that the earlier one was balancing. For some reason you seem to be making that leap.

Not sure how many more ways I could put it, but there ya go.

[ssilk]

There is a significant difference between balancing belts and balancing belt lanes.

[JoshLittle]

Perhaps I found the misunderstanding. Examples:

• "If 100 items go into a splitter, I want 50 items on the left output belt and 50 items on the right output belt" = The belts are balanced (that's what I am talking about)
• "if 75 items on the left line and 25 items on the right line (on one or two inputs) go into a splitter, I want to have 50 on each line of the output belt" = The lines are balanced (that's what you talk about what a splitter doesn't do)

I know that it works item by item and line by line. That's what you probably mean with "intention".

Edit:
@ssilk: Two dumbs one thought (Does this phrase exist in english? But you can translate it back )

[FishSandwich]

Next video, filling in for -root.

Negative Fish?! - Factorio - The Hydra Dilemma #75

[Xecutor]

Once again - Mr. Fish the Fixer

[n9103]

Still got that original (and very persistent) problem of not enough iron plates flowing.

[HeilTec]

Taken well care of.

[JoshLittle]

But now the next episode has to be the stinking fish instead of the sinking fish you had before. Because uuuuh. All that fish that was out it the sun for days must be smelling like hell. Do biters like the smell of stinking fish? Hope so

Additional spoiling-comment:

To work against its shortage it would be nice to end the extraction of circuits into the network from the productionline of smart inserters

[-root]

Episode 76 is up!

[JoshLittle]

Nice prank

(Do you will play after Fish the next time again or will you switch places again? Because then he wouldn't be within your two episodes..)

• The second line could be extended fully to the splitter of the balancer. Without it it could get a traffic jam on one line of the belt before it is balanced.
• You missed one spawner.

[PharAway]

What's up guys/gals! New episode is up for the Dilemma. Check it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPVFNAceGn8

[CreeperDaReeper]

As to the power problem:

I think at some point someone disconnected the top right chunk of Solar Panels & Accumulators. Someone might want to reconnect them to the network.