[Oxyd] [0.17.71] Biters and Spitters not attacking after shot with artillery

[Jon8RFC]

When I manually attack with artillery or wait ~10 minutes for artillery to automatically attack again, the hit/nearby aliens move, briefly, but don't attack.

There is a noticeable improvement with the new, non-collision mechanism, but others seems to just be sitting around.

Save:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=64334#p456713

[Klonan]

I checked out your save, and it seems normal, I shoot them with artillery, they start attacking:



So then I enabled all research, which increased the range quite a bit, and then some groups got stuck waiting for the pathfinder,
Which I think is fine, the pathfinder was at about 1.1 ms, maybe we can bump up the limit

After the artillery stopped, the groups eventually got the processing time to pathfind, and attacked the base

[Jon8RFC]

So, it's just a matter of time in cases with lots of aliens?

Same save...
Should random aliens be sitting around, by themselves?
https://youtu.be/T6gXdA3_X7Y?t=625

While trying to see how the random, lonely aliens react, I noticed some disappearing. Is this normal?
https://youtu.be/T6gXdA3_X7Y?t=845

It also happens at other points in the video, but the linked portion of the video is where I kept them within view to show the Houdini aliens at their best.

I stopped recording the video and quit the game about 10 seconds after that, but it doesn't look like there's anything useful in the log.

[Klonan]

One problem seems to be a lot of really small unit groups:


This is probably the cause of the 'single random aliens sitting around',
We can take a look at that

But it isn't really a major problem IMO, and not a huge priority, so if its too much work we will probably leave it as it is now

[azesmbog]

But it isn't really a major problem IMO, and not a huge priority, so if its too much work we will probably leave it as it is now

For you, this is a small problem, for me - a huge one
Screenshot below.
As I understand it, the dark red circles are the radius of the AUTOMATIC destruction of guns. According to any of the circles, it is clear that the maximum area of ​​the square inscribed in this circle is affected. It has always been like this and it doesn’t bother me much I’ll clarify that the radius of destruction of the guns is very large, high.
Now for the latest version. Better not, maybe even worse. On the left of the screen is a fresh cannon shot of the bitters nests. Firstly, it has already stopped (no longer finds new nests ???) - you yourself understand that this cannot happen - I can manually shoot the border in a circle around the circle - there will still be tens of thousands within automatic reach.
But that’s not all - you also see red dots on the left. These are either frozen or walking bitters. 1,500 or more shells were fired - they did not even think of running to the source of the shots - they gathered in heaps of flocks, then dispersed. On the strength of several dozen came under the turrets.
This does not bother me, but as I understand it, the UPS will decrease due to them: ((((((((((

[Klonan]

But it isn't really a major problem IMO, and not a huge priority, so if its too much work we will probably leave it as it is now

For you, this is a small problem, for me - a huge one
Screenshot below.
As I understand it, the dark red circles are the radius of the AUTOMATIC destruction of guns. According to any of the circles, it is clear that the maximum area of ​​the square inscribed in this circle is affected. It has always been like this and it doesn’t bother me much I’ll clarify that the radius of destruction of the guns is very large, high.
Now for the latest version. Better not, maybe even worse. On the left of the screen is a fresh cannon shot of the bitters nests. Firstly, it has already stopped (no longer finds new nests ???) - you yourself understand that this cannot happen - I can manually shoot the border in a circle around the circle - there will still be tens of thousands within automatic reach.
But that’s not all - you also see red dots on the left. These are either frozen or walking bitters. 1,500 or more shells were fired - they did not even think of running to the source of the shots - they gathered in heaps of flocks, then dispersed. On the strength of several dozen came under the turrets.
This does not bother me, but as I understand it, the UPS will decrease due to them: ((((((((((

Are those biters still on the way from the previous version of the game?
Can you provide the save game?

[azesmbog]

No, this is the latest version of the game.
The previous 0.69 version of the game ended at the mark (there were guns) 700,437, the map was cleared a little further by the radius of fire.
This morning I downloaded the 0.70 version. UPS immediately fell to 0.6 and 15 minutes it lasted, throughout the whole territory, as I understand it, the turrets fired at the bitters that thawed, this is about 30,000 pieces. After this, the average UPS rose from 42 to 60. I decided to open up some more territory for joy.
I reached the mark of about 701,000 and shot at least 1,500 shells. Biters gathered in packs, but did not think to run towards the guns.
I can provide conservation, but you probably know that I have the largest of those that exist, with my Internet ADSL will be uploaded for 5-6 hours

I will have many more such battles, I will try next time to save before the shooting of the nests)

[Oxyd]

Well, from the screenshot you showed it looks like something is definitely wrong with your save – the biters aren't even trying to pathfind toward the artillery. A save would be very useful for us, but I understand that uploading a huge file might be difficult.

[Jon8RFC]

Are the disappearing biters/spitters just how the game works and we never notice it, or is it not supposed to happen?

[Oxyd]

Are the disappearing biters/spitters just how the game works and we never notice it, or is it not supposed to happen?

They disappear like that when their AI gets stuck too hard. So a little bit of both. I'll investigate what their problem is in your save.

[azesmbog]

auto_guns3.jpg (269.62 KiB) Viewed 79019 times

Well, from the screenshot you showed it looks like something is definitely wrong with your save – the biters aren't even trying to pathfind toward the artillery. A save would be very useful for us, but I understand that uploading a huge file might be difficult.

So I say. I have already played many thousands of hours and destroyed many millions of bitters. Therefore, I can judge a little about their behavior. Sometimes between guns and bitters there is no obstacle at all, literally nearby. and they gather in packs and stand still. It used to be so often. Give me a few days - and I will say whether such behavior will still be or not
Here is the screenshot above - the most common behavior after shelling
I can already say - playing has become much more difficult, even with my 20 level of laser turrets. Soon I will finish level 21 - then we'll see who will destroy someone faster%)

[azesmbog]

Well, from the screenshot you showed it looks like something is definitely wrong with your save – the biters aren't even trying to pathfind toward the artillery. A save would be very useful for us, but I understand that uploading a huge file might be difficult.

Here is the save game three days ago

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qGgmk ... MY2-WmDtKJ

Since then, many thousands of bitters have been destroyed, but in general the situation has not changed. In some areas of the region, bitters run for shots in the thousands, turrets hardly manage to shoot them (or do not have time, can not cope )
At this conservation of the game, I just started to shoot, then from the same place, 1000 shells were fired. Biters gathered in flocks and all.
Is this a problem with my save, with my game map or with the game itself? Or is it what the developers intended?)))

[azesmbog]

Tell me at least what should I enable in debugging to see if bitters are going to come to me?
I am inclined to think that they have become so wise that they have become pacifists, and frankly did not give a damn about me and openly say - "Well, what are you shelling us, are we not fools to go under the bullets ?! !!" A.I.

[Fishy]

I seem to be having the same problem. The turret outposts on the far east side are attracting biters as they should be, but the northwest turret outpost, the most west, and the most southerly turrets seem to have "tainted" all the biters and nests in those areas. None of the biters or spitters will seek any artillery no matter the source. The bugs group up, get all tightly clumped up, then disperse into the closest nest clump.

This is the save
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LLVr8M ... sp=sharing

I didn't notice any strange behavior until I built the most southerly artillery outpost about 85-90 hours in.

[Fishy]

Is there any way to reset the "bad-attack-chunks"?

This bug seems to be quite contagious indeed!

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1963768594

This is a different map then the previous save I posted.

I don't know but, I think the confusion started when I started firing nukes and running away from very large biter colonies that where within my pollution cloud. (Deathworld settings)

I can post this new save if if is needed.
Also, I may have and old save before the bug happened, and I'll see if I can recreate.

[azesmbog]

As I killed just 20-30 million bitters in a fair fight, I can say on my own behalf that in the latest versions of the game, the behavior of the bitters has improved significantly. Frozen groups still come across, but more often than not, they simply disappear after a certain period of time. I think about two hours later.
Very rarely this does not happen, then these frozen groups simply reduce the FPS in my game, which is very sad.
Just try to do nothing for several hours, and watch)

[BlueTemplar]

So, what are those "bad-attack-chunks" exactly ? I never managed to figure it out...

Are the disappearing biters/spitters just how the game works and we never notice it, or is it not supposed to happen?

AFAIK that's how the game deals with completely stuck biters/spitters.
In a 0.16 game where I got to blue biters while still without access to green science, and so couldn't realistically kill them, I dealt with them by trapping them in walls and just running far away (so that the would "lose my scent") (and/or sometimes belting them away just for fun, though this often failed).
What happened next was that either they munched down the walls and went straight back "home" to the nearest nest, or beelined to and killed the nearest turret and then went straight home, or finally got stuck at some point of the munching and... simply vanished !

[Fishy]

I've had stuck colonies for tens of hours now, maybe 50-80 hours plus. They don't de-spawn. Those stuck colonies don't even send pollution attacks. They are in the pollution cloud.

Some screens:
1. Colony within the pollution cloud with bad attack chunk overlay on (not that I know what that does/means exactly)

Bugged Bugs.jpg (343.25 KiB) Viewed 78382 times

2. Post bombardment from manual artillery firing. Note the group coming in from the right are in fact targeting artillery, but they are coming from way across the map, and are not associated with these spawners. They were able to pathfind through the bad attack chunk fine so it would seem.

Post Shelling.jpg (1.7 MiB) Viewed 78382 times

3. Radar from artillery expired, but unit group info and show paths enabled. The passing through group is across the screen now.

Still grouping.jpg (1.48 MiB) Viewed 78382 times

4. First group finished gathering its recruits and have disbanded. Note the bad-attack-chunk overlay has gone away.

Starting to disband.jpg (1.38 MiB) Viewed 78382 times

5. All group have finished gathering their recruits and all have disbanded into the existing colony without sending a single attack group. Also, the bad attack chunk overlay is back on.

All have disbanded.jpg (1.58 MiB) Viewed 78382 times

I'm pretty sure that I had not harassed that particular colony for a long time, over 20 hours and probably much longer, but I could be wrong.

[Fishy]

For whatever its worth, updating to .18 seems to have unstuck all the stuck colonies in my save.
I fire artillery, bugs group up, then attack as normal as far as I can see. I'm no longer having any issues. (I think)

[kovarex]

Lets consider this solved then.