Solar farm with perfect ratio.

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Koub
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Re: Solar farm with perfect ratio.

Post by Koub » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:24 am

nafira wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:40 pm
Since your consumption of energy is not continuous and perfect, why should your providing ratio should be ?
I try to do 1:0.9 to ensure I have enough accus, and due to laser consumption which is not intended nor predictable.
Then you lack solar panels - on average - to recharge the accus. The thing with ideal theoretical balance is that if you say "I'll add more of this to be sure I have at least enough" is get you to "I don't have enough of that to fit the new this".
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Solar farm with perfect ratio.

Post by mrvn » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:52 am

Koub wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:24 am
nafira wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:40 pm
Since your consumption of energy is not continuous and perfect, why should your providing ratio should be ?
I try to do 1:0.9 to ensure I have enough accus, and due to laser consumption which is not intended nor predictable.
Then you lack solar panels - on average - to recharge the accus. The thing with ideal theoretical balance is that if you say "I'll add more of this to be sure I have at least enough" is get you to "I don't have enough of that to fit the new this".
It's a balancing act. You want more accus to handle peaks in energy consumption. The perfect ratio only considers the recharge time during day to handle energy consumption 24/7. But lasers don't consume energy all the time and you recharge them between alien attacks. And as you expand and the aliens become more evolved and numerous those laser peaks become larger too. So it's not just "add 50 accus for peaks total" but you need some percentage extra. Or an accu:laser ratio independent of the solar:accu ratio.

nafira
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Re: Solar farm with perfect ratio.

Post by nafira » Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:11 pm

mrvn wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:52 am
Koub wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:24 am
nafira wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:40 pm
Since your consumption of energy is not continuous and perfect, why should your providing ratio should be ?
I try to do 1:0.9 to ensure I have enough accus, and due to laser consumption which is not intended nor predictable.
Then you lack solar panels - on average - to recharge the accus. The thing with ideal theoretical balance is that if you say "I'll add more of this to be sure I have at least enough" is get you to "I don't have enough of that to fit the new this".
It's a balancing act. You want more accus to handle peaks in energy consumption. The perfect ratio only considers the recharge time during day to handle energy consumption 24/7. But lasers don't consume energy all the time and you recharge them between alien attacks. And as you expand and the aliens become more evolved and numerous those laser peaks become larger too. So it's not just "add 50 accus for peaks total" but you need some percentage extra. Or an accu:laser ratio independent of the solar:accu ratio.
Exactly.
Seeing only what is perfect ratio only leads you to ensure the gap between day and night, it does not match what you can need
And there two main factors for disrupting this ratio : lasers and bots
If you use logic circuits, you'll also have "smaller" peaks.

So in theory Koub, you comment is right, because updating the amount of solar and keep the same ratio works.
The thing is that in a real case scenario, you may only need to update the amount of accus, without the need to add any solar.

The more bitter attack you have the highest your ratio is.
I find 0.9 being a good ratio to maintain. But it purely depends how you work in your factory.

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Re: Solar farm with perfect ratio.

Post by Koub » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:39 am

nafira wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:11 pm
The more bitter attack you have the highest your ratio is.
I find 0.9 being a good ratio to maintain. But it purely depends how you work in your factory.
More accus only adds a safety cushion in case of exceptional "oops bad luck, I got a consumption spike out of nowhere, but I overall overproduce power".
The more this kind of exception occurs, the less it's exceptional, and the more solar is needed to account for the regularity of the phenomenon, up to the point where you're back at the theoretical ideal ratio.

What I have experienced in the past is exactly that : at first I added some accus because I had an exceptionally high spike in consumption once. Then the issue disappeared until the exception became too common for my solar to keep the pace, and then, the drama occured. The answer is that if you ever come close to the low energy in your accus at the end of night, don't wait, and expand your power facility, keeping the optimal ratio.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Solar farm with perfect ratio.

Post by nafira » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:31 pm

Koub wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:39 am
nafira wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:11 pm
The more bitter attack you have the highest your ratio is.
I find 0.9 being a good ratio to maintain. But it purely depends how you work in your factory.
More accus only adds a safety cushion in case of exceptional "oops bad luck, I got a consumption spike out of nowhere, but I overall overproduce power".
The more this kind of exception occurs, the less it's exceptional, and the more solar is needed to account for the regularity of the phenomenon, up to the point where you're back at the theoretical ideal ratio.

What I have experienced in the past is exactly that : at first I added some accus because I had an exceptionally high spike in consumption once. Then the issue disappeared until the exception became too common for my solar to keep the pace, and then, the drama occurred. The answer is that if you ever come close to the low energy in your accus at the end of night, don't wait, and expand your power facility, keeping the optimal ratio.
So maintain a higher ratio than the perfect one and use your method to expand power needs.
Like suggested 0.9 but you can maintain another. Your games your rules

In any case, maintaining "this" perfect ratio is ridiculous. Because it doesn't really exists, it's a mathematical calculation for recharging accus.


Remember : the truth is relative. This is why "perfect" things doesn't exists. I can make a long philosophical post about it, but I won't, it's too long. Just one word : Schrödinger.

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Re: Solar farm with perfect ratio.

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:57 pm

Quick, Captain Metaphysics to the rescue !
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Re: Solar farm with perfect ratio.

Post by BrainlessTeddy » Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:07 pm

nafira wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:31 pm
Remember : the truth is relative. This is why "perfect" things doesn't exists. I can make a long philosophical post about it, but I won't, it's too long. Just one word : Schrödinger.
And that's why I choose the "perfect" ratio because I don't like having some random ratio. But I know that it's not really perfect like a perfectly balanced steam engine setup or nuclear power plant.
English is not my native language, please correct me if I make any mistakes.
Also I'm the creator of Minesweeper and Pong in Factorio.

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Re: Solar farm with perfect ratio.

Post by mrvn » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:09 am

BrainlessTeddy wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:07 pm
nafira wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:31 pm
Remember : the truth is relative. This is why "perfect" things doesn't exists. I can make a long philosophical post about it, but I won't, it's too long. Just one word : Schrödinger.
And that's why I choose the "perfect" ratio because I don't like having some random ratio. But I know that it's not really perfect like a perfectly balanced steam engine setup or nuclear power plant.
You don't perfectly balance steam either. You add some extra steam tanks and engines. When no aliens attack the steam tanks will fill up and when the aliens attack the extra seam engines will provided the needed peak power. For a time. Same thing as with solar.

With nuclear you could do the same. But so far I always massively overbuild nuclear.

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Re: Solar farm with perfect ratio.

Post by BrainlessTeddy » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:23 am

mrvn wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:09 am
BrainlessTeddy wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 4:07 pm
nafira wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 3:31 pm
Remember : the truth is relative. This is why "perfect" things doesn't exists. I can make a long philosophical post about it, but I won't, it's too long. Just one word : Schrödinger.
And that's why I choose the "perfect" ratio because I don't like having some random ratio. But I know that it's not really perfect like a perfectly balanced steam engine setup or nuclear power plant.
You don't perfectly balance steam either. You add some extra steam tanks and engines. When no aliens attack the steam tanks will fill up and when the aliens attack the extra seam engines will provided the needed peak power. For a time. Same thing as with solar.

With nuclear you could do the same. But so far I always massively overbuild nuclear.
Hmm...
Maybe I have to change the way I play Factorio. :D
English is not my native language, please correct me if I make any mistakes.
Also I'm the creator of Minesweeper and Pong in Factorio.

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