[MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

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MiiNiPaa
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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by MiiNiPaa » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:19 pm

Shortcuts for blueprints and personal roboports are not unlocked with bronze bots. It is slightly annoying having to crash your monowheel to check if roboport is enabled.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by ThreePounds » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:25 pm

Since you seem to like to look at bases made with IR I want to show you mine as I transition from the bronze to the iron age. I'm playing with RSO so resources in my base are about to run dry (especially copper) and I have to spend my first ingots to hopefully transition to trains. Biters are slowly becoming an issue too. The switch from coal to crushed coal will only delay the inevitable.

PS.: my favourite little thing about the mod is the sound the foresters make. It's nice to listen to the sound of birds chirping peacefully as the factory mercilessly expands around them and distant gunshots echo.
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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:44 pm

MiiNiPaa wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:19 pm
Shortcuts for blueprints and personal roboports are not unlocked with bronze bots. It is slightly annoying having to crash your monowheel to check if roboport is enabled.
Ugh. Not sure how we missed that.

Blueprints aren't ever locked to my knowledge, though - the quickbar control for blueprints, decon, upgrade, copy, cut, paste are all enabled from new game start in my version of the game with no mods installed. For some reason, "undo" seems to be the exception.

The roboport toggle is surprisingly annoying to fix though. Won't go into the technicalities here. Needs thought.

Edited to add: mystery solved.
Last edited by Deadlock989 on Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:50 pm

ThreePounds wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:25 pm
Since you seem to like to look at bases made with IR I want to show you mine as I transition from the bronze to the iron age. I'm playing with RSO so resources in my base are about to run dry (especially copper) and I have to spend my first ingots to hopefully transition to trains. Biters are slowly becoming an issue too. The switch from coal to crushed coal will only delay the inevitable.

PS.: my favourite little thing about the mod is the sound the foresters make. It's nice to listen to the sound of birds chirping peacefully as the factory mercilessly expands around them and distant gunshots echo.
Love it.

Really interested in feedback on RSO - there's an open question of whether iron ore should have been included in the starting area or not. In IR without RSO, it isn't, on purpose, won't change. But RSO can in theory put iron a long, long way away. My own feeling is that this is exactly the challenge RSO should be adding, and playing with it a bit myself, it seems OK, RNG permitting - but it's not my mod and I'm happy for orzelek/RSO to make that call. RSO seems to make nicer starting area patches with less/no overlaps anyway, though it feels wrong to me to start a new game sitting on a big ore patch you can't use for an hour or three.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by mrvn » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:17 pm

Then let me simplify:

Locomotives should require steam engines instead of engines to fit the iron age.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:25 pm

I need, and asked for, the literal opposite of "simplified".

Combustion engines cost 29 iron ingots.

Steam engines cost 168 iron ingots.

Locomotives cost 125 iron and some other materials.

If I replace the three engines in a locomotive with just one steam engine, that nearly doubles the iron cost of locomotives, and it reduces the number of recipes using combustion engines down to 2 from 3. It also substantially increases the handcrafting-time-from-scratch of a locomotive, not that you should be doing that in the first place.

Would go down with players like a ton of bricks, I expect.

There's a reason this mod took over a thousand hours to make. Plus an additional 2-60 hours of several other people's time.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Gouldukat » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:14 pm

Bilka wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:11 am
kingarthur wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:45 am
whatever that orange fluid is has a positive loop from the bottom row and then 2 rows up it outputs more than came in
In the planner, maybe. In-game? Nope. The planner doesn't respect that catalysts aren't affected by the productivity modules.
Thank you, now i know ... i was like ... ohmg where do i will put all that plus water out ... :-o

;-) hehehe

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by atom.heart » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:18 pm

Looking at the ore processing procedures:

Miner -> Ore
Ore Crusher -> Crushed Ore
Purification Plant -> Refined Ore
Ore Crusher -> Powdered Ore
Furnance -> Ingot

Out of curiosity, did you ever consider using a chemical plant for the powdered ore instead of using an ore crusher twice? I think it would be interesting to include sulfur or some other fluid in the process, so it's not just a 1:1 recipe. I jusf feel like there should be a slight jump in the difficulty of refining here instead of just placing down another ore crusher.

Really enjoying my first play through. Thanks for the mod:}

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by ThreePounds » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:45 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:50 pm
In IR without RSO, it isn't, on purpose, won't change. But RSO can in theory put iron a long, long way away. My own feeling is that this is exactly the challenge RSO should be adding, and playing with it a bit myself, it seems OK, RNG permitting - but it's not my mod and I'm happy for orzelek/RSO to make that call. RSO seems to make nicer starting area patches with less/no overlaps anyway, though it feels wrong to me to start a new game sitting on a big ore patch you can't use for an hour or three.
I personally love the fact that Iron isn't included in the starter area. It feels really satisfying to haul ore back with the Monowheel and turn it into new goodies. In my seed there are several patches about 500 blocks out so it's not entirely unfeasible to belt them back.

I can't really comment on anything else as I am just starting to branch out from my starter area.

When the mod was first released and RSO wasn't yet updated for compatibly I started a game to see what would happen. Iron was included in the starter area and it was really off-putting. Firstly, it's confusing why you can't smelt the ore and it's visually similar to tin so it took me a moment to realise I wasn't supposed to mine it, yet. Not having it in the starter area in the first place removes this road bump and is definitely the better option.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by PTTG » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:47 pm

atom.heart wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:18 pm
Looking at the ore processing procedures:

Miner -> Ore
Ore Crusher -> Crushed Ore
Purification Plant -> Refined Ore
Ore Crusher -> Powdered Ore
Furnance -> Ingot

Out of curiosity, did you ever consider using a chemical plant for the powdered ore instead of using an ore crusher twice? I think it would be interesting to include sulfur or some other fluid in the process, so it's not just a 1:1 recipe. I jusf feel like there should be a slight jump in the difficulty of refining here instead of just placing down another ore crusher.

Really enjoying my first play through. Thanks for the mod:}
I haven't reached that level yet, but it does sound like an interesting possibility. RL ore refining calls for acids all the time.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Mylon » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:03 pm

I want an ore sintering machine. Laser assemblers just assemble complex intermediaries from powdered iron and skip having to smelt/machine it.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:17 pm

atom.heart wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:18 pm
Out of curiosity, did you ever consider using a chemical plant for the powdered ore instead of using an ore crusher twice? I think it would be interesting to include sulfur or some other fluid in the process, so it's not just a 1:1 recipe. I jusf feel like there should be a slight jump in the difficulty of refining here instead of just placing down another ore crusher.

Really enjoying my first play through. Thanks for the mod:}
Mylon wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:03 pm
I want an ore sintering machine. Laser assemblers just assemble complex intermediaries from powdered iron and skip having to smelt/machine it.
Yes, acid in the ore process was flirted with for a while, but not for powder, and it was in the washers, not chem plants - it was for a different reason, won't go into it now. It didn't work out - I mean it worked, but it added nothing to play. Doesn't mean it couldn't work, and it could be that this suggestion is a better purpose. I broadly agree that powder lacks excitement and is a non-jump in difficulty - by my spreadsheets, you actually need fewer machines to powder a belt of ore than you do to refine them, in some circumstances - and would like to revisit this.

This week I am taking it a bit easy and just fixing up some obvious bugs. Next week I'll be focused on balancing, mostly in the later stages of the game, because that's where the issues are. Ideally want 1.0.0 out by the end of the month, sooner if possible, but won't force it until it's ready.

I do like the idea of sintering but I wouldn't want to bypass smelting without changing the balance of the powdering stage significantly. So the two ideas above have a lot of merit for me when taken together, less so separately. But it's not super-likely I'd be able to fit this into the 1.0.0 release, I've had a lot of time off recently but I'm back to the RL grindstone as of this week.
Last edited by Deadlock989 on Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Fen1kz » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:18 pm

That's a nice mod, it's in a perfect place between vanilla and angelbobs madness. I do like it, however there's one thing that bugs me - combat. First turrets feel very weak and low range and the latter are all energy based.

And whats worst - I cannot seem to find balanced mods for that. The closest thing is Rampant Arsenal, but it has a bug with shotgun turret (and overall adds a bit too much). But even this is way off balanced because for modded turret you need like 10 steel plates, 10 copper plates and some easy thing. Like, it's easier to craft than basic inserter.

Does anybody knows any good mods for warfare that could work with this one? I'm trying to hold off Rampant + Natural Evolution biters.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:24 pm

ThreePounds wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:45 pm
I personally love the fact that Iron isn't included in the starter area. It feels really satisfying to haul ore back with the Monowheel and turn it into new goodies. In my seed there are several patches about 500 blocks out so it's not entirely unfeasible to belt them back.

I can't really comment on anything else as I am just starting to branch out from my starter area.

When the mod was first released and RSO wasn't yet updated for compatibly I started a game to see what would happen. Iron was included in the starter area and it was really off-putting. Firstly, it's confusing why you can't smelt the ore and it's visually similar to tin so it took me a moment to realise I wasn't supposed to mine it, yet. Not having it in the starter area in the first place removes this road bump and is definitely the better option.
It's not in the "starting area", never has been - but that's codespeak. It's perfectly possible for it to be a stone's throw away from the starting area boundary, so you wouldn't always see a huge difference between "in" or "out" of the starting area. When ores are set to be "not in the starting area" it just means they're not lumped in directly with the patches you always get right near player spawn. Doesn't mean other ores can't be visible from where you start. Also depends heavily on mapgen settings.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:27 pm

Fen1kz wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:18 pm
That's a nice mod, it's in a perfect place between vanilla and angelbobs madness. I do like it, however there's one thing that bugs me - combat. First turrets feel very weak and low range and the latter are all energy based.
Very surprised by this as my own feeling, and all the feedback I've had on combat, has been that physical weaponry is overpowered.

Yes, scattergun range is low, but they pack a huge wallop, especially after even just a couple of researches.

Miniguns are literally just reskinned vanilla gun turrets, their range is exactly the same, no stats are changed, except ammo, and also both physical ammo turrets have an increased "prepare range" compared to vanilla, meaning they activate and lock on to targets outside of firing range a bit earlier, to compensate for having a physical projectile travel time.

It doesn't help that the current vanilla biter experience seems to vary hugely with RNG map generation. I haven't touched biter spawning and highly unlikely to go near it before Factorio 1.0. If I do, they won't be biters any more.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by McDuff » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:17 pm

Going to try moving away from early burner spaghetti to a bus. What do people reckon are good bus lanes? (Late Bronze/Early Iron)
Last edited by McDuff on Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Mylon » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:19 pm

Busses are boring. Spaghetti 4 lyfe.

Or do it the cool kids way and put all of the complicated stuff on a trains and just build micro bases everywhere.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by enchant » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:47 pm

Is Industrial Revolution compatible with Nanobots? I tried using the upgrade planner to replace burner inserters with regular inserters. The planner marked the burner inserters with the yellow circle, but they're not getting replaced.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:04 pm

enchant wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:47 pm
Is Industrial Revolution compatible with Nanobots? I tried using the upgrade planner to replace burner inserters with regular inserters. The planner marked the burner inserters with the yellow circle, but they're not getting replaced.
I don't know. Someone had a go, or tried to. Not tried it personally. Mod discussion page doesn't look too promising, mind.

There's nothing unusual about the way burner inserters specify their next upgrade, I don't think I even touched it.

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Re: [MOD 0.17+] Industrial Revolution (0.99.x)

Post by enchant » Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:35 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:04 pm
It's not "Currently supported", but someone took care of it, or has tried to. Not tried it personally. Mod discussion page doesn't look too promising, mind.
Thanks for that. I gave it a quick try, but it failed upon load, so I just disabled it. It's not a massive problem (so far). For the most part, nanobots are working. They're disassembling things ok, copy/paste works. Upgrade planner does work on other things I've tried. The only problem I've seen so far is with inserters.

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