Show mod license.txt ingame.

[eradicator]

What?
It'd be nice if the in-game mod-menu could show the content of license.txt same as changelog.txt. Without any fancy formatting.
+ [License] Button next to Changelog (for directly shipping a license.txt inside the zip file)
+ [License] info.json support for a field that shows just the name (and maybe a hyperlink?)

sudoexample.png (56.64 KiB) Viewed 4517 times

Why?
There's currently no way to see (or read) the license of a mod inside the game, but with the great improvements made to the in-game menu (thank you very much) many people probably don't even look at the portal website that often anymore. Furthermore some people might not even be aware that mods are licensed differently from the main game. Also sometimes the license of a mod changes, so the license shown on the mod portal for the latest version of a mod isn't even always the correct one for someone with an old version of the mod installed (i.e. in a modpack that is incompatible with the latest version).

[Pi-C]

Also sometimes the license of a mod changes, so the license shown on the mod portal for the latest version of a mod isn't even always the correct one for someone with an old version of the mod installed (i.e. in a modpack that is incompatible with the latest version).

Would it be a good idea to highlight a changed license? For example, make a diff of license in installed mod version against license in new version; if there is a difference, or if the mod isn't installed yet, use a red background for the license button; else, use a green background. This will make it easier for players with lots of mods to keep track of changed licenses.

[eradicator]

Also sometimes the license of a mod changes, so the license shown on the mod portal for the latest version of a mod isn't even always the correct one for someone with an old version of the mod installed (i.e. in a modpack that is incompatible with the latest version).

Would it be a good idea to highlight a changed license? For example, make a diff of license in installed mod version against license in new version; if there is a difference, or if the mod isn't installed yet, use a red background for the license button; else, use a green background. This will make it easier for players with lots of mods to keep track of changed licenses.

How the player is notified / endorsed to think about the licensing is imho another topic. For now my first concern is to get them to show up in-game *at all*. I.e. i want to have a baseline opt-in, so that players *can* see the license if they *want* to, because realistically most people simply won't care. And as all licenses technically should allow *privately using* the mod most people don't *need* to care. I don't want to drownn people new to modding in legalize warnings. But anyone who wants to go beyond private usage (public performance, distributing from their own server, etc) should have an easy way to look up their rights.

[Pi-C]

How the player is notified / endorsed to think about the licensing is imho another topic. For now my first concern is to get them to show up in-game *at all*. I.e. i want to have a baseline opt-in, so that players *can* see the license if they *want* to, because realistically most people simply won't care.

Yes, the button you suggested would do that -- it's unobtrusive, and opt-in, like the "Changelog" button. If you're not interested, you don't click it and everything is fine.

However, there is one big difference between license and changelog: If a new version of a mod is published, there definitely will be changes, and with the changelog button, you have a way to take a look at them. A changed license in the new version of a mod, on the other hand, is an exception rather than the rule. Say, I've installed a mod a couple of months ago, and kept it up to date by downloading every single update for 20 versions or more: Why should I read the license each time when I can assume that it hasn't been changed (because it didn't change for the past 20 versions)? NobodyHardly anybody would do that! So, if there was to way to access licenses from the game, it would make sense to signal whether a license has been changed.

It shouldn't be really expensive: You click on a mod in the in-game mod manager. Some information must be loaded already from the mod portal, because things like thumbnail and changelog of the latest version aren't available locally yet. Fetching the license file along with these shouldn't be too much trouble -- it's only plain text, after all! And once the license file has been downloaded, it takes no rocket scientist to make a diff against the installed version's file and act on it.

And as all licenses technically should allow *privately using* the mod most people don't *need* to care. I don't want to drownn people new to modding in legalize warnings. But anyone who wants to go beyond private usage (public performance, distributing from their own server, etc) should have an easy way to look up their rights.

While I agree, there still is the point that you won't read something unless you have a reason to. If I know that a mod has a bug that prevented me from using it, I want to know whether the next update contains a fix for that bug; therefore, i check out the changelog. If I wanted to stream contents of some mod on YouTube, I'd know that licenses could be relevant, so I'd have a reason to check them -- but if I have a hundred mods or more installed, I couldn't keep track of what license has changed even if I wanted to, so I'd appreciate if there was a signal "This mod's license has been changed, better check it out again!".

[eradicator]

I couldn't keep track of what license has changed even if I wanted to, so I'd appreciate if there was a signal "This mod's license has been changed, better check it out again!".

I don't disagree. I merely see it as a different topic to be discussed later, once the baseline has been implemented.

[Pi-C]

I don't disagree. I merely see it as a different topic to be discussed later, once the baseline has been implemented.

I completely understand that you want to have the baseline implemented ASAP. My approach is a bit different, however: Why make something now and add to it later if you could make it "correctly" right from the start? No need for patching in useful things (with the chance to break something) if they are part of the original design!

Also, the developers have to be convinced that something is useful and should be implemented. I think asking for the complete package has a better chance to get it implemented than asking for only thing A at first, for thing B if A is done, and for thing C some weeks later.

[slippycheeze]

Why?
There's currently no way to see (or read) the license of a mod inside the game, but with the great improvements made to the in-game menu (thank you very much) many people probably don't even look at the portal website that often anymore. Furthermore some people might not even be aware that mods are licensed differently from the main game. Also sometimes the license of a mod changes, so the license shown on the mod portal for the latest version of a mod isn't even always the correct one for someone with an old version of the mod installed (i.e. in a modpack that is incompatible with the latest version).

Forgive me, but could you go one "why" further? That is, I understand that you want to see the license like this, or at least, you want the license to be displayed like this. I just can't figure out why you want that. As in, what greater goal this is going to serve?

I'd, personally, think that another metadata field in the mod browser was the appropriate way to handle this: it contains whatever license the user specified, and that should let anyone who needs to know it, y'know, find the actual text.

My concern is that you are trying to technology a solution to a people problem. That is, you want to try and make *other* people more aware of licensing, so they stop accidentally or deliberately violating the license terms when modifying existing mods. Which in my experience is not going to work: if someone isn't bothering to check the license before they start changing or reusing something, they are not going to be slowed down by the license being displayed. This isn't a problem of them having access to information, this is a problem of them not giving a hoot about licensing – often for the silly reason that "if I can read it, I can use it", or some similarly poor logic.

So ... showing license information? Sure. Expecting this to solve any sort of misuse of content or code? Not gonna work.

[eradicator]

It is common practice (and legally required at least where i live) for software to offer the user to read the lincense both at time of installation, and via a submenu *inside* the software. Usually behind a button called [Help] or [About] etc. Factorio offers this directly in the main menu. Every software i use offers this. I'd simply like to be able to make that offer too. If people decide to "sign the contract" without reading it that's their problem.

Please do not try to restart the discussion about "people problems" here. Koub already closed the original one.

[Koub]

The idea is to give people who care an easy and straightforward way to find the license without actually having to dig into the mod files to find it.
Speaking for myself, I always read (well to be honest, the reading isn't thorough, more a skimming to see the key points) EULAs when I'm presented one. But I never make the effort to look for one if I'm not presented one.
There's no way one can change people who don't care, but it makes sense to make things easy for people who do.

[Oktokolo]

+1 for displaying the name of a mod's license ingame right between the mod's version and author in the info box.

Most authors use the well-known standard licenses. So the license name (wich might also be a link to the actual legalese) should cover over 99.99% of all cases where another content creator wants to know whether he can use the mod or not.

Having the server-join mod syncronization dialog list mod metadata somehow might also be a good idea in general.
As mod license changes are even more rare than non-standard-licenses, the game does not have to warn about license changes when updating mods.

[PunPun]

I checked with a lawyer frend of mine and oh boy. For a licence to actually hold in court in my country the user needs to be made aware that a licence exists before they are able to use the thing under the licence when acquaired through official distribution channels(So you can't claim you didn't know the licence existed because you bought it from a friend. Tough you could take your friend to court for not informing you that the licence existed and get them to reimburse any loss you suffered from breaching the licence).

For physical products this means that in the product package(on the box or in a printed paper that comes inside the box) or in the receipt/proof of purchase or the location the product is presented before purchase must either have a mention that there is a licence or include the licence itself. For digital products that have sub products with their own licences like mods it gets a bit more complicated but the idea is the same. The existance of each licence must explicitly and seprately be discoverable without going out of your way to do so and it must be clearly marked which products are under which licence. And it won't be covered by a statement such as "mods may have additional licences" in factorios own licence or anywhere else.

Currently you can navigate to a download button and install and use the modportal mods without encountering any mention of a separate licence and thus any mod that is acquired through the modportal(both ingame and the website) that is made available with the consent of the creator of the mod(making it an official distribution channel for the mod) would in the court of my country be regarded as not having any additional licences at all. Only what is written on factorios own EULA would apply.

Neither I nor my lawyer friend have ever heard of a case where a mod maker had sued someone for breach of licence in my country but the possibility does exist that the mod maker would lose the case because of this.

The best solution to this would be that when a mod is loaded during factorios startup if there is a licence.txt you would recieve a popup before the main menu and if you press accept it would remember it for that spesific instance of the mod.

[BlueTemplar]

FBI raiding Wube offices with the charge of running a massive worldwide counterfeiting crime operation in 3... 2... 1...

[eradicator]

My goal is soley to raise awareness that licenses do exist and to make it easier for the few people who do care. (See what @Koub said.)
___________

I checked with a lawyer frend of mine

Does s/he specialize in copyright law?

For a licence to actually hold in court in my country

Would you mind telling us which country that is? (Sounds subtly different from Germany.)

mention that there is a licence or include the licence itself.

I think in Germany the license has to actually be available in full before the purchase is made. (-> Fun with EULAs when buying physical games in a store.)

The existance of each licence must explicitly and seprately be discoverable without going out of your way to do so and it must be clearly marked which products are under which licence.

This is exactly what i hope this request would accomplish.

and thus any mod that is acquired through the modportal(both ingame and the website)

The website does list the license of each mod if you go to the mods sub-page. Not on the main listing though.

thus any mod [...] that is made available with the consent of the creator of the mod(making it an official distribution channel for the mod) would in the court of my country be regarded as not having any additional licences at all. Only what is written on factorios own EULA would apply.

That is an interesting thing to say, because obviously the EULA of factorio itself does not allow redistributing of the software.

- Factorio is not a free software, copy-left or public domain software. The source code and all art assets are copyrighted and licensed by Wube Software Ltd. and any use of them is subject to the rules stated in these Terms of Service or, if applicable, an express consent of Wube Software Ltd.
- You are not allowed to copy, transfer or distribute the game, its hacked or otherwise altered versions, any of its parts or any of the paid content.

Thus anyone distributing a mod (i.e. for a private server) under the assumption that the base game EULA applies would be violating the license even if the mod authors intent was to allow distribution. Also at that point we can also start doubting if and what bits of the factorio EULA are valid in the first place under the same conditions.

Neither I nor my lawyer friend have ever heard of a case where a mod maker had sued someone for breach of licence in my country but the possibility does exist that the mod maker would lose the case because of this.

The more interesting question is: What could a mod maker gain if they *win*? While common mod license state what you're not allowed to do they do not usually specify any terms for the case of a license violation (monetary or otherwise). And proving how much money someone made using something they don't own, or even that they made money at all, is usually impossible in a civil lawsuit because if any proof exists it's owned by the "perpetrator" who would be quite stupid to admit that.

The best solution to this would be that when a mod is loaded during factorios startup if there is a licence.txt you would recieve a popup before the main menu and if you press accept it would remember it for that spesific instance of the mod.

While that might be the most legally "safe" variant it's also the most annoying thing you can do. Because it'd mean that users of large modpacks might have to "accept" 50+ license after pressing "update all". The licenses on my mods for example are not there to give me a better chance in court (not realistic etc). They're there to explicitly state how i'd prefer people to handle my mods. (see also first line of this post)

[PunPun]

My goal is soley to raise awareness that licenses do exist and to make it easier for the few people who do care. (See what @Koub said.)

Yes I noticed. Which is why I pointed out that this is simply not an inconvinience thing but an actual problem that undermines the licencing thing as a whole.

I checked with a lawyer frend of mine

Does s/he specialize in copyright law?

No but he did represent a client in a case involving a chainsaw accident where the manufactorer tried to argue that since the licence found in their website for that model forbids using aftermarket handguards their insurance would not cover the accident. But because the licence was not mentioned in the box or the usermanual or the reciept the court ruled that since the existance of the licence could only be discovered through the manufactorers website it required you to go out of your way to discover it and was thus invalid and they would have to pay the insurance.

For a licence to actually hold in court in my country

Would you mind telling us which country that is? (Sounds subtly different from Germany.)

Finland

mention that there is a licence or include the licence itself.

I think in Germany the license has to actually be available in full before the purchase is made. (-> Fun with EULAs when buying physical games in a store.)

The existance of each licence must explicitly and seprately be discoverable without going out of your way to do so and it must be clearly marked which products are under which licence.

This is exactly what i hope this request would accomplish.

and thus any mod that is acquired through the modportal(both ingame and the website)

The website does list the license of each mod if you go to the mods sub-page. Not on the main listing though.

thus any mod [...] that is made available with the consent of the creator of the mod(making it an official distribution channel for the mod) would in the court of my country be regarded as not having any additional licences at all. Only what is written on factorios own EULA would apply.

That is an interesting thing to say, because obviously the EULA of factorio itself does not allow redistributing of the software.

- Factorio is not a free software, copy-left or public domain software. The source code and all art assets are copyrighted and licensed by Wube Software Ltd. and any use of them is subject to the rules stated in these Terms of Service or, if applicable, an express consent of Wube Software Ltd.
- You are not allowed to copy, transfer or distribute the game, its hacked or otherwise altered versions, any of its parts or any of the paid content.

Thus anyone distributing a mod (i.e. for a private server) under the assumption that the base game EULA applies would be violating the license even if the mod authors intent was to allow distribution. Also at that point we can also start doubting if and what bits of the factorio EULA are valid in the first place under the same conditions.

What I ment was that the parts of factorios EULA that specify any rights or restrictions for mods would still apply

Neither I nor my lawyer friend have ever heard of a case where a mod maker had sued someone for breach of licence in my country but the possibility does exist that the mod maker would lose the case because of this.

The more interesting question is: What could a mod maker gain if they *win*? While common mod license state what you're not allowed to do they do not usually specify any terms for the case of a license violation (monetary or otherwise). And proving how much money someone made using something they don't own, or even that they made money at all, is usually impossible in a civil lawsuit because if any proof exists it's owned by the "perpetrator" who would be quite stupid to admit that.

And that would probably be the reason why we have never heard of such a court case.

The best solution to this would be that when a mod is loaded during factorios startup if there is a licence.txt you would recieve a popup before the main menu and if you press accept it would remember it for that spesific instance of the mod.

While that might be the most legally "safe" variant it's also the most annoying thing you can do. Because it'd mean that users of large modpacks might have to "accept" 50+ license after pressing "update all". The licenses on my mods for example are not there to give me a better chance in court (not realistic etc). They're there to explicitly state how i'd prefer people to handle my mods. (see also first line of this post)

You could just give a single popup with a list of all the mods with a licence and a "click a mods name to open it's licence". It would be enough to transfer the responsibility to the user. While it would probably not change anyones life there could be someone who might feel satisfied after informing twitch/youtube that a streamer is breaking their licence with easy proof that they must have known it existed leading to a takedown. You never know. Ofcourse making the licences clearly visible in the ingame modmanager and on the website before reaching a download button would also work.

Also I am not a lawyer and when I talked about this with my friend it was not a legal consulation so he did not actually check anything and was telling me how he remembers it.

[eradicator]

You could just give a single popup with a list of all the mods with a licence and a "click a mods name to open it's licence".

Might work or not work with private law enforcers (youtube, etc), but i'm not convinced that this would have any effect in a German court at all. The discussion about how/if this affects anyones actual rights has already been done in another thread. And as stated above, the goal of this request is just having the standard button that every other software has.

Also I am not a lawyer

As is probably everyone here.

[pleegwat]

First game startup with the mod isn't distribution. I'd rather expect accepting the license when downloading from the mods page, or when installing ingame through the mod manager.