[MOD 0.17] Industrial Revolution

[Aquaholic27]

I keep telling myself that I can be patient for this mod, but you keep showing new screenshots that prove me wrong - the mod’s too good!

[Deadlock989]

AAI Industry is now officially supported and integrated, along with Krastorio (thanks to Linver), Dectorio and a handful of smaller mods. Any other QOL mod that doesn't mess with the vanilla tech tree will also most likely work from the get-go.

Space Exploration definitely won't be supported when this mod is released, but will be added later. I've been so preoccupied with building this for the last six months that I haven't actually had time to play SpaceX yet, and I'm not going to try and make that monster work without taking it out to dinner first.

Release for the second weekend of September, most likely.

[Mylon]

Since I know you love people distracting you from your work so much...

Will there be any single-product recipies with a single use? Some mods tend to go a little overboard with adding goods/products for the sake of adding products and there isn't any functional difference to the product having a longer craft time.

[Deadlock989]

Since I know you love people distracting you from your work so much...

Will there be any single-product recipies with a single use? Some mods tend to go a little overboard with adding goods/products for the sake of adding products and there isn't any functional difference to the product having a longer craft time.

This was a problem in earlier versions of the mod. The component system spits out a ton of stuff and I got carried away with trying to find a use for everything. That resulted in too many things only being used in one or two recipes.

During playtesting this got picked this up as a problem, especially in the earliest phase of the game when your automation options are limited. I did some work on eliminating rarely used things. They're not 100% gone, but it was improved a lot.

The mod still generates quite a few redundant components if they are physically plausible, but they are hidden from the crafting tab by default if they are not used in any other recipe. That way, other mods (e.g. expansion mods that I add later) can still reference them if they want. This applies most to almost all of the post-rocket tier (duranium), which is intended to get more use in future.

RIP bronze gears. You looked like the Factorio logo, but you just didn't find that niche.

[Adamo]

...
RIP bronze gears. You looked like the Factorio logo, but you just didn't find that niche.

This to me is a good sign. I didn't realize you were taking a programmatic approach., which is something I love to do, but have been messing with only in chemistry and in physics (energy use and production), so far. I will tell you that the first thing I noticed when looking at your pictures is "oh, shit, what the hell are those bronze gears about and why is he putting them into the tree where I suspect they would have to go?" So, to hear you say this gives me confidence in what you are doing, and if you're taking a programmatic approach to establishing smelting intermediates, I very much look forward to seeing what you've done.

[Airat9000]

who is date compatible angels and bob mods?

[Deadlock989]

I didn't realize you were taking a programmatic approach

The whole backbone of the mod is procedural, especially the component system and the tech tree auto-build, down to the icons which are produced by matching Python scripts in Blender. Entity prototypes are about the only thing consistently defined by hand. Almost everything else comes from tables.

who is date compatible angels and bob mods?

Never, unless someone else does it. Don't ask a third time.

[Airat9000]

I didn't realize you were taking a programmatic approach

The whole backbone of the mod is procedural, especially the component system and the tech tree auto-build, down to the icons which are produced by matching Python scripts in Blender. Entity prototypes are about the only thing consistently defined by hand. Almost everything else comes from tables.

who is date compatible angels and bob mods?

Never, unless someone else does it. Don't ask a third time.

understand...
mod worked in future?
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/xander-mod-v1

[sidelia]

I didn't realize you were taking a programmatic approach

The whole backbone of the mod is procedural, especially the component system and the tech tree auto-build, down to the icons which are produced by matching Python scripts in Blender. Entity prototypes are about the only thing consistently defined by hand. Almost everything else comes from tables.

who is date compatible angels and bob mods?

Never, unless someone else does it. Don't ask a third time.

understand...
mod worked in future?
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/xander-mod-v1

How about we let him release it before we piss him off? He's been pretty clear about what it works with and what it doesn't (and probably won't). If you really want to know if it'll work and it's not mentioned, wait until it's out and try it yourself then let us know.

[Mylon]

To all of the people asking for compatibility... Why? Most mod the incompatible mods focus entirely on replacing vanilla recipes and products. Angel and Bobs is special in that one focuses mostly on mining and processing and the other is more about manufacturing. And even then they step on each others toes in a few areas and create some redundant or duplicate (but not interchangeable!) recipes. Enjoy the different mods for a different experience. Or try combining them with mods that change the experience in other ways, like most of mine.

[Deadlock989]

How about we let him release it before we piss him off?

Well, if I get a vote, it's for less pissing off both before and after, but I'll take whatever I can get.

[TheRenegade]

.... now officially supported and integrated, along with Krastorio (thanks to Linver)......

I found Krastorio as I wanted a more in-depth game than vanilla offered, but didn't want to get crazy like Angels/Bobs, so to that end, I love Krastorio. From the looks of your mod it should compliment it nicely, so I am eagerly awaiting it's release.

My questions are this -

1. How nicely will Industrial Revolution and Krastorio play together?
2. Will you be changing Krastorio recipes to include your new components?
3. What will happen to "duplicate" items? Both add new turrents, gears and what not.

In my opinion there are varying degrees of "support and integration". Do you feel that they will compliment each other in the gameplay? I'm really hoping for more support than "here's your Krastorio categories and your IR categories. Have FUN!" As Yuri's are a prime example of something that works well with most everything, but isn't really nice to add on to anything as it makes it own crafting categories and just makes it a pain.

Thanks for the info. I am really looking forward to your mod! Hopefully I'm not being to much of a pain in the ass!

[Deadlock989]

1. How nicely will Industrial Revolution and Krastorio play together?
2. Will you be changing Krastorio recipes to include your new components?
3. What will happen to "duplicate" items? Both add new turrents, gears and what not.

Linver, co-author of Krastorio, did 98% of the compatibility work for this, and that compatibility patch sits inside Krastorio's code. I've seen the results but I'm not deeply familiar with Krastorio.

1. Quite nicely. It helped that Krastorio is pretty end-game focused and IR isn't, so there wasn't a lot of fighting for the same conceptual territory.

2. Yes, recipes did change. There were several nice overlaps - sand, glass, gold, titanium - and at their request I provided IR-style icons for tantalum so it looks like it fits into the IR component scheme, also a couple for items deriving from that crystal stuff whose name I forget right now. Linver did some work on incorporating the higher tier IR components - mostly chrome-plated stuff - into the higher tier K machines.

3. Components, e.g. titanium plates, steel beams etc. don't get duplicated at all. K versions of things that IR provides are suppressed and converted. Turrets, I have no idea, sorry, but I assume you'll have both sets. I don't think the turrets repeat each other particularly except on the basis that they are all rotating blocks which make biters die.

For more detail, ask on the Krastorio thread.

[TheRenegade]

1. How nicely will Industrial Revolution and Krastorio play together?
2. Will you be changing Krastorio recipes to include your new components?
3. What will happen to "duplicate" items? Both add new turrents, gears and what not.

Linver, co-author of Krastorio, did 98% of the compatibility work for this, and that compatibility patch sits inside Krastorio's code. I've seen the results but I'm not deeply familiar with Krastorio.

1. Quite nicely. It helped that Krastorio is pretty end-game focused and IR isn't, so there wasn't a lot of fighting for the same conceptual territory.

2. Yes, recipes did change. There were several nice overlaps - sand, glass, gold, titanium - and at their request I provided IR-style icons for tantalum so it looks like it fits into the IR component scheme, also a couple for items deriving from that crystal stuff whose name I forget right now. Linver did some work on incorporating the higher tier IR components - mostly chrome-plated stuff - into the higher tier K machines.

3. Components, e.g. titanium plates, steel beams etc. don't get duplicated at all. K versions of things that IR provides are suppressed and converted. Turrets, I have no idea, sorry, but I assume you'll have both sets. I don't think the turrets repeat each other particularly except on the basis that they are all rotating blocks which make biters die.

For more detail, ask on the Krastorio thread.

This pretty much answered everything perfectly! Your answer makes me more eager to play them both together! Thanks for the great reply!!

[sidelia]

Regarding the AAI compatibility - How involved is IR in the very early (pre-electric) stage and will AAI+IR feel different to a vanilla+AAI start? Also, AAI makes some sweeping changes to recipes to cause them to use earlier versions of tech (steel furnace requires a stone one, inserter requires a burner version) - does that still hold true in IR or do you do your own thing?

Also, so looking forward to trying this one out - I've yet to find something that really spruces up the mid game and this looks like a perfect fit from what I can see.

[Deadlock989]

Regarding the AAI compatibility - How involved is IR in the very early (pre-electric) stage and will AAI+IR feel different to a vanilla+AAI start? Also, AAI makes some sweeping changes to recipes to cause them to use earlier versions of tech (steel furnace requires a stone one, inserter requires a burner version) - does that still hold true in IR or do you do your own thing?

Also, so looking forward to trying this one out - I've yet to find something that really spruces up the mid game and this looks like a perfect fit from what I can see.

Bit of a mixed bag here I'm afraid. AAI builds its stuff in a funny order and it was difficult to manage. We were so far unable to get AAI + IR + Krastorio working at all, for example, even though IR and Krastorio both support AAI individually - Krastorio currently aborts loading if it detects both of the others because we just lost patience with it. IR's completely uncompromising approach to rebuilding the tech tree from scratch, and AAI's order in the alphabet, are mostly responsible for that - Krastorio loads last. This kind of issue is pretty much unappreciated by types who post "Bob compatible when???!!" on every forum thread they can find.

AAI Industry was the first, probably only, overhaul mod I really enjoyed playing, a couple of years back now, and I think it's fair to say that IR probably has a fair bit of AAI in its DNA. AAI didn't have glass and sand when I was playing it but it does now. So IR's feature set covers a lot of AAI's ground: I can't think of any components or intermediate products AAI provides that IR doesn't cover as well. That wasn't entirely conscious - it just became obvious when I sat down to patch them together. The only new things that AAI provides which IR doesn't have are mostly entities/machines: the starter burner turbine, the electric offshore pump, the small iron poles, the expanded selection of walls and the vehicle fuel.

While IR shares a fair few principles with AAI, the nested things-inside-things isn't one of them. In IR, you disassemble outdated tech, not build successive new machines with it like Russian dolls. Because IR changes 99% of vanilla recipes, it replaces almost all of AAI's changes to vanilla with its own. There isn't even a "steel furnace" in IR (a bronze furnace fills that niche - there is a "furnace" made mostly of steel, but it's electric, covers six times the ground area, and is the final tier of furnace, not the middle one, and internally it's not even a furnace). Any vanilla item or entity which didn't fit the Revolutionary plan was toast, no hesitation.

The first two of IR's six "Ages", Stone and Bronze, are pre-electric. Adding AAI mostly just extends the early Iron Age and the way you build defences. For people that dislike burner play, or who are beginning a second or third IR game, there are options to skip entire tiers of tech and/or get a bonus starter kit. Picking Iron Age as your start is the closest you'll get to a vanilla game start (not that close if I'm honest).

[sidelia]

Thanks for the info - It sounds like IRs approach will do exactly the thing that I use AAI for, namely making the beginning a little more interesting than plop down a burner miner and furnace and within 5 minutes I've got an electrically powered base started.

Even with data-updates and data-final-fixes giving some ordering flexibility some mods are just never going to work together. I've got about 50 or so small mod-patches I've whipped up to try to shoehorn in some compatibility between mods I've used. At times it's a nightmare.

One last question on my mind. Vanilla really benefits from your staking beltboxes to reduce bus size on materials (looking at those 32 iron belts) - will the variance in product types in IR mean significantly less of each material needed to the point where something like the beltboxes won't be as useful?

[Deadlock989]

One last question on my mind. Vanilla really benefits from your staking beltboxes to reduce bus size on materials (looking at those 32 iron belts) - will the variance in product types in IR mean significantly less of each material needed to the point where something like the beltboxes won't be as useful?

IR supports DSB (obviously), but I made some hard-nosed choices about what is stackable and what isn't. There are just too many components for them all to be stackable. The one most likely to cause howls of protest is that raw ore and pre-smelted ore products aren't stackable in IR. I have my reasons for that and I'm sticking to them.

However, the entire component tree rests on ingots - almost all metal components ultimately derive from ingots, as well as glass - so stacking ingots is massively useful. In an IR megabase, you'd have a stacked ingot bus where you would normally have a stacked plate bus.

[McDuff]

One last question on my mind. Vanilla really benefits from your staking beltboxes to reduce bus size on materials (looking at those 32 iron belts) - will the variance in product types in IR mean significantly less of each material needed to the point where something like the beltboxes won't be as useful?

IR supports DSB (obviously), but I made some hard-nosed choices about what is stackable and what isn't. There are just too many components for them all to be stackable. The one most likely to cause howls of protest is that raw ore and pre-smelted ore products aren't stackable in IR. I have my reasons for that and I'm sticking to them.

However, the entire component tree rests on ingots - almost all metal components ultimately derive from ingots, as well as glass - so stacking ingots is massively useful. In an IR megabase, you'd have a stacked ingot bus where you would normally have a stacked plate bus.

*plentiful sad faces*

I've been using the Experimental Stacking mod that Shaun put together, to smelt a stack of iron ore directly into a stack of copper ore, and I'm really used to that now. I guess this is supposed to encourage smelting locally rather than pushing everything into huge multi-column centralised smelteries?

[Deadlock989]

*plentiful sad faces*

I've been using the Experimental Stacking mod that Shaun put together, to smelt a stack of iron ore directly into a stack of copper ore, and I'm really used to that now. I guess this is supposed to encourage smelting locally rather than pushing everything into huge multi-column centralised smelteries?

No, there were several reasons, but that wasn't one of them, I wouldn't want to stop anyone designing their base any particular way. There were just too many items that need stacking, it blew menus off the screen if I included everything.

I roughly ordered every candidate for stacking by criteria like, is it a boxy or flat stackable shape or is it already a jumbled pile, is it something that gets loaded on and off of trains and containers a lot, is it something that spends a lot of time on belts anyway. Then I set up everything that was at the top of the list. Ores didn't quite make it past the limit I'd set. Besides, the raw ore that comes out of the ground is less important in IR than it is in vanilla - or at least, it shares belt time with a lot of other ore-related products. If raw ore was stacked by default then there would be no reason to not also stack crushed ores, purified ores and powdered ores. For each of 6-8 materials, depending on the material and the product.

I'm not sure how the Experimental Stacking mod calculates the batch recipes but it might have to look quite hard at how ingots work if Shaun or anyone else wants to add it - because there is a sense in which IR recipes are already batched. Some fairly extreme numbers might pop out (depending on how it works, I've never used it). Obviously people are free to write third party mods to do anything they like to IR recipes. I'm personally a bit obsessive about how much stuff gets crammed into one menu and how many unnecessary recipes there are in my tabs, I know other people are much less bothered by that.

Another reason is that the default icons folder already has 650+ things in it. Too many of those already are stacked variants which won't ever be used by people that don't run DSB at all, which is why the OP says 500+. That madness has to stop somewhere. I'm trying to prevent the download size from getting too far past 100 Mb.