[0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

[mrvn]

There is this oldish mod: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/goldsword44/JunkTrain

Maybe you could get Angel, goldsword44, or yuoki to make you a nice steam locomotive?

So, although possible given what I said above, requiring a tender?

I was thinking of using the special fuel class instead of a tender. Maybe if one were to make a custom locomotive one could include the tender into the locomotive. If you want to make it cooler a locomotive filling tower( I know custom graphic again...) that creates the special fuel from water and burnables. I personally would also change the diesel locomotive in a way it only runs with fluid fuel. That would get you a nice distinction between the steam locomotives running on solids and the diesel running on fluids.

If it's just a special fuel item made from fuel + water that you load into the locomotive using inserters then I feel that is rather pointless. For me the point of a steam locomotive would be that you load it up with fuel and pump in water. Even better than using a normal pump would be one of those old western water towers with a pipe that swings over the track and fills the locomotive from the top using gravity.

Internally the water tower could be used to do the water+fuel item conversion. Make it an assembler with water input and output and with burner fuel and a recipe that takes water and makes water+fuel. The assembler would burn fuel making the water+fuel item at a set rate and the fuel type doesn't matter. 1 wood would give 1 water+fuel item, 1 coal would give 2 water+fuel items, 1 nuclear fuel would give 34563456 (or however many that makes) water+fuel items. The game handles the fuel conversion and consumption for us. Add a pump (the swinging arm) to it and you've got a train refueling station. Probably should also have a tank in there to match the graphics of a water tower.

Overall this would look like a real steam locomotive without needing any scripts and not even per fuel type recipes.

[Light]

It would be nice if you could include detailed descriptions for the mod settings to know precisely what's being enabled/disabled.

An example is disabling "New steam power related entities" actually disables all the steam entities and not just the new ones. A detailed tooltip would have helped to know what "new" entities were being disabled, so that one doesn't have to re-enable it after learning it does more than is expected.

Some are also vague or seemingly overlap like "oil furnaces" and "furnaces". Does disabling the latter disable oil furnaces too or just non-oil ones? What entities are included in the oil furnaces setting that may inadvertently disable something I want? Stuff like that could do with better clarification as it feels like trial and error to achieve the intended result.

On another note, is there a toggle for the oil burners? I've tried to find it but it either slipped by or it disabled more than was intended so I re-enabled it without checking. Angel's doesn't have fuel values so it's a lot of redundant tech I've had to disable to keep things tidy. Also, the heat entities setting combined the two types so I have to split them to keep the non-oil variant which I can use. This should be avoided to better tailor the experience as needed, especially given how many things Bob's dips its toes into that overlap with other mods to some extent.

Don't get me wrong though, it's nice to see new developments but the clutter is starting to add up and so these areas need to be better supported. Though, given the size and scope the mod suite has grown into over the years, you've likely expected this post to appear to prod you into working on that at some point.

[bobingabout]

It would be nice if you could include detailed descriptions for the mod settings to know precisely what's being enabled/disabled.

An example is disabling "New steam power related entities" actually disables all the steam entities and not just the new ones. A detailed tooltip would have helped to know what "new" entities were being disabled, so that one doesn't have to re-enable it after learning it does more than is expected.

Some are also vague or seemingly overlap like "oil furnaces" and "furnaces". Does disabling the latter disable oil furnaces too or just non-oil ones? What entities are included in the oil furnaces setting that may inadvertently disable something I want? Stuff like that could do with better clarification as it feels like trial and error to achieve the intended result.

On another note, is there a toggle for the oil burners? I've tried to find it but it either slipped by or it disabled more than was intended so I re-enabled it without checking. Angel's doesn't have fuel values so it's a lot of redundant tech I've had to disable to keep things tidy. Also, the heat entities setting combined the two types so I have to split them to keep the non-oil variant which I can use. This should be avoided to better tailor the experience as needed, especially given how many things Bob's dips its toes into that overlap with other mods to some extent.

Don't get me wrong though, it's nice to see new developments but the clutter is starting to add up and so these areas need to be better supported. Though, given the size and scope the mod suite has grown into over the years, you've likely expected this post to appear to prod you into working on that at some point.

Some of my mods have setting descriptions that have a tooltip that explain things when you hover over them, others don't. Settings as a whole is something I need to re-visit at some time. A good example of the direction I'm trying to head into is the new heat pipes in bobpower. there isn't actually a setting for it, there's 3 different things that turn them on. but... yes, especially with the steam power stuff, there should be more than just the one setting. this basically happened because the original boilers and steam engines were a set, then the new steam turbines were written in a way that made them paired with the higher tiers of steam engines, and you need to use a specific tier of steam from an (oil) boiler/heat exchanger paired to the same tier of steam engine/turbine. so... because it's all part of the same set, it's all under the same setting. It would be more accurate to call it a steam power overhaul, than just new steam power things.


Anyway, an update:

Classes 0.17.5:
Fixed boot rubber ingredient.
Added rename button to the Avatar switcher GUI, to allow you to set a name for your characters,
Added God mode, Editor mode and switch class buttons to the Avatar switcher GUI if button is enabled and it's single player, or if the player is an admin if the game is multiplayer. Use with caution. each button is enabled with a setting.
Added close button to class select GUI, exits without choosing a class.
Removed position coordinates from the Avatar switcher GUI
Added a minimap button to each character on the Avatar switcher GUI

[bobingabout]

Since I updated the classes GUI, I was kind of in the mood to look into more GUI stuff, so I updated the inserters GUI too.

Inserters 0.17.7:
GUI style update (and HR too)
Fixed GUI close event. (should be able to once again close the inserter GUI by pressing E or ESC)

[slippycheeze]

Since I updated the classes GUI, I was kind of in the mood to look into more GUI stuff, so I updated the inserters GUI too.

Speaking of the inserter GUI, it looks like the current version of miniloaders, and your GUI, end up drawing elements for the "hidden" loaders inside the miniloader. I saw code that was intended to make that, well, not happen, but it seems to be ineffective for me.

Is that an issue you care about, or they care about, or that only I care about? (and I don't care much, I gotta say)

[bobingabout]

Since I updated the classes GUI, I was kind of in the mood to look into more GUI stuff, so I updated the inserters GUI too.

Speaking of the inserter GUI, it looks like the current version of miniloaders, and your GUI, end up drawing elements for the "hidden" loaders inside the miniloader. I saw code that was intended to make that, well, not happen, but it seems to be ineffective for me.

Is that an issue you care about, or they care about, or that only I care about? (and I don't care much, I gotta say)

I care only to the point that I support Therax, the modder of Miniloaders, to be able to set not showing them. The previous update was actually supposed to help fix an issue with this, but he also made a change because of an error.

In these situations, it's probably best to poke him with the issue, and he'll poke me if I need to make a change. I don't think my latest update changed anything related to that, is that an issue that already existed?

[slippycheeze]

In these situations, it's probably best to poke him with the issue, and he'll poke me if I need to make a change. I don't think my latest update changed anything related to that, is that an issue that already existed?

Yes, it did. Thank you for the clarification, and I'll take it over there. Thanks.

[BlueTemplar]

I would love for locomotives to require water, but I don't think that's going to happen.

Maybe with a script and a fluid-wagon full of water, but... you know I don't like runtime scripts.

How about an additional fuel class for the steam-locomotives? It's a canister made of water and fuel, unifying the two into an item. I'm sure you can create a script to make a variant of the recipe for everything burnable. As far as I know burners have the option to give a return item like nuclear plants, so they could give the canister back.

I have never seen locomotives give something back.

But you could add a tender and tank to a locomotive and then have a script that converts those into fuel+water-item that is put into the actual fuel slot of the locomotive. The script wouldn't have to run often if the fuel value of the fuel+water-item or it's stack size is large enough. The next script run could be set by how full the locomotives fuel slots are as well. So if you don't fuel the locomotive fully the conversion runs more often.

there's no reason why you can't say, give hydrogen canister a fuel value and have it act as fuel. the main reason why I don't is because it would require editing everything to have a burnt result box.
It's possible you could have a specific new fuel category (like nuclear is if you're looking for a base game example) so only special entities can burn these new fuel types and return an item, EG, LPG powered vehicles that return an empty canister.

I would love for locomotives to require water, but I don't think that's going to happen.

Maybe with a script and a fluid-wagon full of water, but... you know I don't like runtime scripts.

How about an additional fuel class for the steam-locomotives? It's a canister made of water and fuel, unifying the two into an item. I'm sure you can create a script to make a variant of the recipe for everything burnable. As far as I know burners have the option to give a return item like nuclear plants, so they could give the canister back.

So, although possible given what I said above, requiring a tender? too much scripting effort when it's just using a special fuel item anyway. As for why I haven't considered it... well... if you stick with what I usually do, it would look just like a normal locomotive. if you want a steam engine, that's graphics, I'm not good at graphics.

Reminds me of https://mods.factorio.com/mod/BurnBarrels
Have you seen Diesel Locomotive ?
viewtopic.php?p=441351#p441351

[bobingabout]

Classes 0.17.6:
Fixed inventory size differences.
Minor GUI update.

Inserters 0.17.8:
Fixed crash in certain GUI open/close situations.
Minor GUI update.

Logistics 0.17.14:
Moved pump next update to bob-pump-2 to the data-updates phase.
Reworked the inserter overhaul to not break (delete wires and filters etc) vanilla blueprints.

[Dracul1981]

since last update of bob's charakter classes, the game for me now broken, because the reduced inv. size of builder... 500+ hours in the save, so any possibilities to fix that? or better switch to older version? problem maybe on my side, because besides Bob's heavy modded with yuoki, Bio, aircraft and More config ( that way "normal" "former" times lot more inv. size ) best regards Dracul1981

[bobingabout]

since last update of bob's charakter classes, the game for me now broken, because the reduced inv. size of builder... 500+ hours in the save, so any possibilities to fix that? or better switch to older version? problem maybe on my side, because besides Bob's heavy modded with yuoki, Bio, aircraft and More config ( that way "normal" "former" times lot more inv. size ) best regards Dracul1981

what is the inventory size? I'm fairly sure Builder should be base size 80.
The latest version made it (if I did things correctly) actually scale based on what other mods set the base character entity to.

what happens if you change the inventory size option of Metals, chemicals and intermediates?

[Dracul1981]

since last update of bob's charakter classes, the game for me now broken, because the reduced inv. size of builder... 500+ hours in the save, so any possibilities to fix that? or better switch to older version? problem maybe on my side, because besides Bob's heavy modded with yuoki, Bio, aircraft and More config ( that way "normal" "former" times lot more inv. size ) best regards Dracul1981

what is the inventory size? I'm fairly sure Builder should be base size 80.
The latest version made it (if I did things correctly) actually scale based on what other mods set the base character entity to.

what happens if you change the inventory size option of Metals, chemicals and intermediates?

the stack soze is great enough, inv is necessary over 100, because, yours, bio and yuoki, my buildings, machines and resources of yuoki aren't there anymore. started new game, even no possibility to build logistical items, most important inserters.... i'll check again next days. for today, fed up with lost save... but it's not your fault, i would say. problem is wy more mods as "good" maybe

[BlueTemplar]

Plz add 6(?) extra slots if colored alien artifacts are enabled, and 6(?) extra again if small alien artifacts are enabled ?
Hmm, or maybe (auto)trash slots?
I guess that the biggest issue is how they only start having a use in late game... but then I'm not sure what one could do with them before without completely ripping off Alien Loot Economy or They're Made Out Of Meat ?
(P.S.: Never mind if this (fairly small) issue was already "fixed" in 0.17...)

[bobingabout]

Plz add 6(?) extra slots if colored alien artifacts are enabled, and 6(?) extra again if small alien artifacts are enabled ?
Hmm, or maybe (auto)trash slots?
I guess that the biggest issue is how they only start having a use in late game... but then I'm not sure what one could do with them before without completely ripping off Alien Loot Economy or They're Made Out Of Meat ?
(P.S.: Never mind if this (fairly small) issue was already "fixed" in 0.17...)

You have infinite research for Logistic trash slots now. (Added In Bob's Logistics mod.)

[bobingabout]

Classes 0.17.7:
Fixed crash when using /editor command.

Revamp 0.17.6:
Change all recipe enabled = "false" lines to enabled = false
Oil overhaul is now an option.
Added a new oil overhaul(on another option) that doesn't add the extra oil processing recipes, instead it replaces petroleum gas on other oil processing recipes with sour gas. This can be split into petroleum gas to make plastic and hydrogen sulfide to make sulfur and sulfuric acid. sour gas can also be vented, burned or made into fuel blocks generating more pollution than petroleum gas.

[RocketManChronicles]

Added a new oil overhaul(on another option) that doesn't add the extra oil processing recipes, instead it replaces petroleum gas on other oil processing recipes with sour gas. This can be split into petroleum gas to make plastic and hydrogen sulfide to make sulfur and sulfuric acid. sour gas can also be vented, burned or made into fuel blocks generating more pollution than petroleum gas.

Very interesting. Does this mean that some refinery recipes are changed to produce sour gas instead of petroleum gas? Is there a balance or recipe dependence on this new "sour gas?" I am intrigued to add it to my current 'new' playthough to check it out.

[bobingabout]

Added a new oil overhaul(on another option) that doesn't add the extra oil processing recipes, instead it replaces petroleum gas on other oil processing recipes with sour gas. This can be split into petroleum gas to make plastic and hydrogen sulfide to make sulfur and sulfuric acid. sour gas can also be vented, burned or made into fuel blocks generating more pollution than petroleum gas.

Very interesting. Does this mean that some refinery recipes are changed to produce sour gas instead of petroleum gas? Is there a balance or recipe dependence on this new "sour gas?" I am intrigued to add it to my current 'new' playthough to check it out.

Most of the stuff to handle it is already in MCI (bobplates). there's 3 new recipes. 1 to vent it, 1 to make fuel blocks out of it, and 1 to split it into PG and H2S.
There does appear to be a lack of recipe to turn H2S into acid directly, but you can bounce through the sulfur dioxide chain to get there. I am considering adding a recipe for it, but...

hydrogen sulfide + oxygen -> sulfur
hydrogen sulfide + oxygen -> sulfur dioxide
hydrogen sulfide + oxygen -> sulfuric acid

the recipes are kind of the same, the only difference is the amount of oxygen each would take.

[RocketManChronicles]

Added a new oil overhaul(on another option) that doesn't add the extra oil processing recipes, instead it replaces petroleum gas on other oil processing recipes with sour gas. This can be split into petroleum gas to make plastic and hydrogen sulfide to make sulfur and sulfuric acid. sour gas can also be vented, burned or made into fuel blocks generating more pollution than petroleum gas.

Very interesting. Does this mean that some refinery recipes are changed to produce sour gas instead of petroleum gas? Is there a balance or recipe dependence on this new "sour gas?" I am intrigued to add it to my current 'new' playthough to check it out.

Most of the stuff to handle it is already in MCI (bobplates). there's 3 new recipes. 1 to vent it, 1 to make fuel blocks out of it, and 1 to split it into PG and H2S.
There does appear to be a lack of recipe to turn H2S into acid directly, but you can bounce through the sulfur dioxide chain to get there. I am considering adding a recipe for it, but...

hydrogen sulfide + oxygen -> sulfur
hydrogen sulfide + oxygen -> sulfur dioxide
hydrogen sulfide + oxygen -> sulfuric acid

the recipes are kind of the same, the only difference is the amount of oxygen each would take.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the one recipe in the mods was:

sulfur dioxide + water -> sulfuric acid

Maybe this needs updating? Two ways to achieve sulfuric acid, or as one is advanced. Are you just putting another route of recipes to reach sulfuric acid, or are there plans for more to do with hydrogen sulfide? Otherwise, I see where your calculations add up and I welcome the 'new' changes. Keep up the good work!

[bobingabout]

Added a new oil overhaul(on another option) that doesn't add the extra oil processing recipes, instead it replaces petroleum gas on other oil processing recipes with sour gas. This can be split into petroleum gas to make plastic and hydrogen sulfide to make sulfur and sulfuric acid. sour gas can also be vented, burned or made into fuel blocks generating more pollution than petroleum gas.

Very interesting. Does this mean that some refinery recipes are changed to produce sour gas instead of petroleum gas? Is there a balance or recipe dependence on this new "sour gas?" I am intrigued to add it to my current 'new' playthough to check it out.

Most of the stuff to handle it is already in MCI (bobplates). there's 3 new recipes. 1 to vent it, 1 to make fuel blocks out of it, and 1 to split it into PG and H2S.
There does appear to be a lack of recipe to turn H2S into acid directly, but you can bounce through the sulfur dioxide chain to get there. I am considering adding a recipe for it, but...

hydrogen sulfide + oxygen -> sulfur
hydrogen sulfide + oxygen -> sulfur dioxide
hydrogen sulfide + oxygen -> sulfuric acid

the recipes are kind of the same, the only difference is the amount of oxygen each would take.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the one recipe in the mods was:

sulfur dioxide + water -> sulfuric acid

Maybe this needs updating? Two ways to achieve sulfuric acid, or as one is advanced. Are you just putting another route of recipes to reach sulfuric acid, or are there plans for more to do with hydrogen sulfide? Otherwise, I see where your calculations add up and I welcome the 'new' changes. Keep up the good work!

I didn't add any new recipes for sulfuric acid, you currently have to take your hydrogen sulfide from the sour gas and go...
hydrogen sulfide -> sulfur -> sulfur dioxide -> sulfuric acid.
I looked up alternate routes to make it from hydrogen sulfide, and basically... all the recipes were the same, Hydrogen sulfide + Oxygen -> Sulfur or Sulfur dioxide or Sulfuric acid.
So, for the moment, I haven't added anything else in the chain yet.

[RocketManChronicles]

@obingabout:

With the release of 0.17.60, do your mods maintain the Basic Oil Processing of old, or should we wait for a future release countering it? Or are you tailoring to it, and it will take time to update all mods?