Version 0.17.60

[BlueTemplar]

[*]Deathworld marathon preset was made a little bit easier.

What exactly was changed?

Enemy evolution time factor is set to 150 (from 200), pollution factor is set to 10 (from 12). Attack cost modifier is set to 80% (from 50%).

Thank you for the information.
Just to be clear, since this is a preset, it won't affect already ongoing games, right ?

[irbork]

[*]Deathworld marathon preset was made a little bit easier.

What exactly was changed?

Enemy evolution time factor is set to 150 (from 200), pollution factor is set to 10 (from 12). Attack cost modifier is set to 80% (from 50%).

I hope that default death world is unchanged, since it was really fun to deal with all those cheap alien hordes

[BlueTemplar]

It looks like it hasn't been :
https://wiki.factorio.com/World_generator#Death_world

[xnmo]

Disabling updates

[Aflixion]

Supremely disappointed that you went through with these changes. It's like you completely ignored all the valid criticism of it in the two massive threads discussing it. You were dead set on making SOME change to oil processing because you had this misguided belief that there was something wrong with the way it worked before, any evidence to the contrary be damned. I'll be keeping my game at 0.17.59 until you decide to revert this change.

[Xterminator]

Definitely dissapointed with those oil changes coming through. I can't imagine how this was still considered the best option...
At least it makes my megabase builds easier since Advanced Processing is nearly useless now so I just need a tiny build for it and then can spam production of Basic Processing for all my petro needs and less fluid boxes. Having the basic tech be superior to higher tech for late game big bases names little to since, but I guess it's what you guys wanted.

Not to mention that Rocket Fuel taking light oil now has to be one of the most ridiculous and knee jerk changes I've ever seen to the game. Definitely has the "well since we changed everything else and now made light oil nearly useless, let's add it to something else just so it seems like its used for something", even though it's already likely to be used in solid fuel to make rocket fuel anyway. So just adding light oil to a light oil based chain. Wut...

Only time will tell how good or bad these changes are. Although, I wouldn't count on getting any decent feedback from new players (even though that is who this change is for?), because the vast majority of new players aren't playing on experimental versions.

[FuryoftheStars]

Disabling updates

Supremely disappointed that you went through with these changes. It's like you completely ignored all the valid criticism of it in the two massive threads discussing it. You were dead set on making SOME change to oil processing because you had this misguided belief that there was something wrong with the way it worked before, any evidence to the contrary be damned. I'll be keeping my game at 0.17.59 until you decide to revert this change.

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil

[Aflixion]

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil

I'm not against mods in general, I'm against having to use mods that fix bad design decisions.

Edit: fixed what I meant

[irbork]

Definitely dissapointed with those oil changes coming through. I can't imagine how this was still considered the best option...
At least it makes my megabase builds easier since Advanced Processing is nearly useless now so I just need a tiny build for it and then can spam production of Basic Processing for all my petro needs and less fluid boxes. Having the basic tech be superior to higher tech for late game big bases names little to since, but I guess it's what you guys wanted.

Only time will tell how good or bad these changes are. Although, I wouldn't count on getting any decent feedback from new players (even though that is who this change is for?), because the vast majority of new players aren't playing on experimental versions.

It will be ok. The game design is not to please extremists, like speed runners or megabasers. The majority of normal and new players will not complain and may even appreciate the changes. I now, I have played with oilchanges mod.

[Pi-C]

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil

I'm not against mods in general, I'm against mods that fix bad design decisions.

Do you mean "I'm not against mods in general, I'm against having to use mods to fix bad design decisions"?

[FuryoftheStars]

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil

I'm not against mods in general, I'm against mods that fix bad design decisions.

I hear ya. Just a thought on how to continue to get bugfixes while still on the previous oil system. Also, don't forget that often mods with really high downloads tend to say something to the devs....

[_Attila_]

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil

I'm not against mods in general, I'm against mods that fix bad design decisions.

If you are for pre ..60 oil, you should d/l the mod just to show your support by upping the d/l count. This may paint a better picture than 30 pages of posts.

[Aflixion]

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil

I'm not against mods in general, I'm against mods that fix bad design decisions.

Do you mean "I'm not against mods in general, I'm against having to use mods to fix bad design decisions"?

That's exactly what I mean.

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil

I'm not against mods in general, I'm against mods that fix bad design decisions.

I hear ya. Just a thought on how to continue to get bugfixes while still on the previous oil system. Also, don't forget that often mods with really high downloads tend to say something to the devs....

I understand. I still refuse to fix bad design decisions with mods though, feels like letting the devs get away with it.

[irbork]

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil

I'm not against mods in general, I'm against mods that fix bad design decisions.

That is pretty good then. You will have to play the game as it is designed. After a playthrough you will see that professional game designers know a tad more about game design then game consumers.

[Aflixion]

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil

I'm not against mods in general, I'm against mods that fix bad design decisions.

That is pretty good then. You will have to play the game as it is designed. After a playthrough you will see that professional game designers know a tad more about game design then game consumers.

If that were true, they wouldn't have posted this and opened it up for discussion 2 weeks in a row. There was a similarly controversial change a year and a half ago that was scrapped precisely because the community knew better than the devs that it was a bad design decision.

[FuryoftheStars]

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil

I'm not against mods in general, I'm against mods that fix bad design decisions.

That is pretty good then. You will have to play the game as it is designed. After a playthrough you will see that professional game designers know a tad more about game design then game consumers.

Professional game designers know a tad more about game design that appeals to the mass market. That said, many of us were hoping we'd found one that wouldn't go down that road for once.

[Antaios]

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil

I'm not against mods in general, I'm against mods that fix bad design decisions.

That is pretty good then. You will have to play the game as it is designed. After a playthrough you will see that professional game designers know a tad more about game design then game consumers.

Cheat mods are typically incredibly popular.

But they have a short life.

[Serenity]

The game design is not to please extremists, like speed runners or megabasers. The majority of normal and new players will not complain and may even appreciate the changes.

I hate speed running and I'm not a huge megabase builder. If people don't want to live with the chance that they have to rebuild bases they shouldn't play on an experimental branch.
But I still dislike these changes. Simplifying a game like this just to appeal to the lowest common denominator is never good. Especially since the real "issue" with blue science isn't the oil, but the huge increase in base size at this point. You don't just have to set up oil, but also plastics, red circuits and science. And then greatly increase mine and smelting to keep up with it. It's just a lot of work.

For just the oil there were so many good ideas floating around like only giving heavy or light oil. Or heavy and petroleum. Or making sulfur from various oils to have a sink for everything. Or just having a better UI and tutorial to explain things

[xnmo]

If you aren't against mods: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Pre0-17-60Oil

I'm not against mods in general, I'm against mods that fix bad design decisions.

That is pretty good then. You will have to play the game as it is designed. After a playthrough you will see that professional game designers know a tad more about game design then game consumers.

You don't understand enough about game design to know what "professional game designers" do or do not understand about game design. Don't project your lack of understanding onto the other people who have put forward their reasoned critique of the devs' hasty and poorly thought through balance proposals.

[MeduSalem]

Supremely disappointed that you went through with these changes. It's like you completely ignored all the valid criticism of it in the two massive threads discussing it. You were dead set on making SOME change to oil processing because you had this misguided belief that there was something wrong with the way it worked before, any evidence to the contrary be damned. I'll be keeping my game at 0.17.59 until you decide to revert this change.

Basically... This.

I would actually have a ton to add yet I think it'd be just a waste of time, just as were the two threads about it.

That said I will still update the game though, yet I will take it with a huge grain of salt as this marks the first time for me in the development history of Factorio where I feel that mods have become mandatory to correct bad design choices.