Soil Extractor MK4 is effectively slower than MK3...

[Dragony]

Due to the personally absolutely incomprehensible fact that most higher level tier factories allow LESS modules to be inserted (instead of more what you actually expect, or to stay constant at least) you end up with a MK4 soil extractor without being able to put a speed module into it, resulting in a production speed of 2.7, while a MK3 Soil extractor with one level 3 speed module has a production speed of 3.

Is that intentional? And if so, why?

Right now I don't see any argument to build the horribly expensive MK4 Soil extractors if I get even more speed by just inserting a level 3 speed module into a MK3 Soil Extractor. Even with Beacons I can't find reasonable arguments for MK4.

I would like to see the same amount of modules to be insertable into all tiers, so I don't feel punished for upgrading buildings.

[immortal_sniper1]

Due to the personally absolutely incomprehensible fact that most higher level tier factories allow LESS modules to be inserted (instead of more what you actually expect, or to stay constant at least) you end up with a MK4 soil extractor without being able to put a speed module into it, resulting in a production speed of 2.7, while a MK3 Soil extractor with one level 3 speed module has a production speed of 3.

Is that intentional? And if so, why?

Right now I don't see any argument to build the horribly expensive MK4 Soil extractors if I get even more speed by just inserting a level 3 speed module into a MK3 Soil Extractor. Even with Beacons I can't find reasonable arguments for MK4.

I would like to see the same amount of modules to be insertable into all tiers, so I don't feel punished for upgrading buildings.

you have a good point not sure why py did it tho

also probably it was a mistake a typo since the tier buildings are relatively new
also that makes it the 2nr building that needs a speed correction

[Dragony]

Talking about fixing buildings: The Mega Oil Derricks have a unconstant flow. They stop when they should deliver the current charge. Seems there is an internal buffer in the building. I weren't able to work around this. Not with pumps and neither with tanks. So the effective production power of those buildings is smaller than intended (I suppose).

[Blokus]

This is a pretty common trend in CP, RO, and PH. Also, even when there is an actual benefit after taking modules into account, it really seems like the only reason to build anything above MK2 is to save UPS. The price tags on the blue and purple buildings are just obscene for very limited benefit, especially since beacons and modules cost less than the buildings themselves. I often feel that even MK2 is debatable for those buildings that only increase by a factor of 2 rather than 3.

[pyanodon]

ok, i will remove modules in all that in the next updates.

[immortal_sniper1]

ok, i will remove modules in all that in the next updates.

please dont tho this should be a easy fix usually

[Dragony]

ok, i will remove modules in all that in the next updates.

I can't help it but I feel attacked for reporting issues. So I won't report issues anymore.

And I have disabled updates for your mods. Just in case.

[pyanodon]

That seems the issue. i want solutions since we now know the problems. For me, the fix is remove that, since every tier of buildings speed up the recipes. Progression, problem solved.

[Dragony]

i want solutions

There are several solutions for the same problem.

1. Give all buildings 0 module slots.
2. Give all buildings 4 module slots.
3. Give tier 1 buildings 1 module slot, tier 2 buildings 2 module slots, tier 3 buildings 3 module slots, tier 4 buildings 4 module slots.

Progression

is a matter of point of view. Taking things away is a great way to piss of people. I vote for #3, which makes upgrading buildings much more interesting.

PS: It is YOUR mod and it is a GREAT mod. You can do what you want!

[Blokus]

That seems the issue. i want solutions since we now know the problems. For me, the fix is remove that, since every tier of buildings speed up the recipes. Progression, problem solved.

If you really want to go that route, you're going to need to massively ramp up the speeds of the MK3 and MK4 buildings, otherwise the solution will just be to spam MK1s with beacons (MK2s for a select few things like high pressure furnaces and electrolysers) instead of dealing with the outrageous prices of the MK3s and MK4s. To be quite honest this is already my plan in my save, even with module slots there.

Also, people update your mods mid-save. What does deleting filled module slots in a live save even do during migration? Do they just get deleted?

[YunoAloe]

I think having constant number of module slots between tiers would feel best. Not 0 though, 4 maybe too much too.

[mathiaszealot]

I suppose the question is: what's the point of module slots in Pyanodon's mods?

IMO, since many of the recipes aren't flagged for productivity modules, and efficiency is barely used since power is so inexpensive, this leaves speed modules. So module slots are an option to use more power to have fewer buildings for the same items/s.

While removing the module slots entirely is a valid choice, it seems needlessly restrictive and doesn't really meet the problem that the current options create counter-intuitive outcomes (the module slots are a problem because the outcome doesn't make sense, not a problem because they are there).

Module slots increasing with tier would reflect vanilla and help offset the cost of higher tier buildings.

[Blokus]

I suppose the question is: what's the point of module slots in Pyanodon's mods?

IMO, since many of the recipes aren't flagged for productivity modules, and efficiency is barely used since power is so inexpensive, this leaves speed modules. So module slots are an option to use more power to have fewer buildings for the same items/s.

While removing the module slots entirely is a valid choice, it seems needlessly restrictive and doesn't really meet the problem that the current options create counter-intuitive outcomes (the module slots are a problem because the outcome doesn't make sense, not a problem because they are there).

Module slots increasing with tier would reflect vanilla and help offset the cost of higher tier buildings.

Prod is actually quite commonplace...it's all over the place in making circuits for example.

[ShadowGlass]

The base speed of the machines is important. Any module/beacon will increase the speed relative to the base speed. Yes, without beacons, MK3 (with speed module) is faster than MK4, but with even just one beacon MK4 is faster (barely). If you use the max 16 beacons, the MK3 will have speed 19, and the MK4 speed 24.3.

The decreasing module slots make you choose between productivity (low tier, more slots) or speed (high tier, higher base speed).

That said, the linearity of the speed increases is somewhat disappointing, especially as the costs go up exponentially.

For example a building which starts with speed 1, has tiers with 1/2/3/4 speeds. This means the first upgrade doubles in speed, the second upgrade gives 50% improvement, and the third only 33%.
Buildings which start with 0.5 usually have tiers as 0.5/1.5/2.5/3.5. The first upgrade triples the speed! But after that we only get 66% and 40%.

Buildings starting at 0.5 could be doubling each tear, so 0.5/1/2/4, which would be more consistent and a significant change at each tier.
Buildings starting with 1 could also double each tier, but if you don't want buildings with speed 8 for some reason, you could do something like 1/1.5/2.5/4. This would be roughly 50% each tier rounded up to the nearest 0.5. My preference would be doubling each tier here as well, as I don't think 50%/tier is significant enough.
The soil extractor with it's 0.6 start speed would be somewhere in between, just make sure the ratio between tiers stays more or less consistent. Could also double each tier or for example 0.6/1/1.8/3 would be roughly 66% improvement each tier.

I think energy consumption also should go up with a multiplier each tier, instead of a linear addition. But with a lower multiplier than the speed, so the higher tiers would be more efficient.

[immortal_sniper1]

The base speed of the machines is important. Any module/beacon will increase the speed relative to the base speed. Yes, without beacons, MK3 (with speed module) is faster than MK4, but with even just one beacon MK4 is faster (barely). If you use the max 16 beacons, the MK3 will have speed 19, and the MK4 speed 24.3.

The decreasing module slots make you choose between productivity (low tier, more slots) or speed (high tier, higher base speed).

That said, the linearity of the speed increases is somewhat disappointing, especially as the costs go up exponentially.

For example a building which starts with speed 1, has tiers with 1/2/3/4 speeds. This means the first upgrade doubles in speed, the second upgrade gives 50% improvement, and the third only 33%.
Buildings which start with 0.5 usually have tiers as 0.5/1.5/2.5/3.5. The first upgrade triples the speed! But after that we only get 66% and 40%.

Buildings starting at 0.5 could be doubling each tear, so 0.5/1/2/4, which would be more consistent and a significant change at each tier.
Buildings starting with 1 could also double each tier, but if you don't want buildings with speed 8 for some reason, you could do something like 1/1.5/2.5/4. This would be roughly 50% each tier rounded up to the nearest 0.5. My preference would be doubling each tier here as well, as I don't think 50%/tier is significant enough.
The soil extractor with it's 0.6 start speed would be somewhere in between, just make sure the ratio between tiers stays more or less consistent. Could also double each tier or for example 0.6/1/1.8/3 would be roughly 66% improvement each tier.

I think energy consumption also should go up with a multiplier each tier, instead of a linear addition. But with a lower multiplier than the speed, so the higher tiers would be more efficient.

actually power needed goes down by tier (relative to a certain identical throughput

[Blokus]

The base speed of the machines is important. Any module/beacon will increase the speed relative to the base speed. Yes, without beacons, MK3 (with speed module) is faster than MK4, but with even just one beacon MK4 is faster (barely). If you use the max 16 beacons, the MK3 will have speed 19, and the MK4 speed 24.3.

The decreasing module slots make you choose between productivity (low tier, more slots) or speed (high tier, higher base speed).

That said, the linearity of the speed increases is somewhat disappointing, especially as the costs go up exponentially.

For example a building which starts with speed 1, has tiers with 1/2/3/4 speeds. This means the first upgrade doubles in speed, the second upgrade gives 50% improvement, and the third only 33%.
Buildings which start with 0.5 usually have tiers as 0.5/1.5/2.5/3.5. The first upgrade triples the speed! But after that we only get 66% and 40%.

Buildings starting at 0.5 could be doubling each tear, so 0.5/1/2/4, which would be more consistent and a significant change at each tier.
Buildings starting with 1 could also double each tier, but if you don't want buildings with speed 8 for some reason, you could do something like 1/1.5/2.5/4. This would be roughly 50% each tier rounded up to the nearest 0.5. My preference would be doubling each tier here as well, as I don't think 50%/tier is significant enough.
The soil extractor with it's 0.6 start speed would be somewhere in between, just make sure the ratio between tiers stays more or less consistent. Could also double each tier or for example 0.6/1/1.8/3 would be roughly 66% improvement each tier.

I think energy consumption also should go up with a multiplier each tier, instead of a linear addition. But with a lower multiplier than the speed, so the higher tiers would be more efficient.

actually power needed goes down by tier (relative to a certain identical throughput

It is already like that, but the proposal is to use a multiplier, tuned such that (like the current additive system) power demand per unit throughput still goes down with tiers.

[tiriscef]

I created a small mod that lets you choose how the number of module slots should progress.

[Pygman]

The community always finds a solution thanks for your work