Am I missing something or does the full PyMods mean an absurdly slow start?

[YunoAloe]

0.16_py_iron2.jpg

Why is it 12 UPS?

[BlueTemplar]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/vlads_AutoTime
Helps a lot in combat of course, especially since you can throw grenades in "bullet time" - also place down walls, but that's generally not how I trap the biters...

Oh, and I forgot :
- The extremely high steel cost makes replacing damaged Heavy Armor quite prohibitive...
- Neither extracting Raw Coal, nor processing Coke, nor burning Coal Dust is worth it (at least energy-wise), again, considering the pollution involved...
(Of course, that's in latest 0.16, things are likely to be very different in latest 0.17...)

[mrvn]

Does setting a large starting area help?

[YunoAloe]

Does setting a large starting area help?

Helps in making biters easier, yes.

[BlueTemplar]

Yeah, I've tried to make the starting area even smaller than the Death World default in my (0.16) AB-Rampant game - never managed to even make it past red science !

[NewSwiss]

Oh yeah, dealing with biters can be painful :
I finally managed to muddle through in my 0.16 Death World game to Iron processing 2,
which cuts down the cost of steel from the starting 80 ore / beam to iron1 33.33 ore/beam down to a tiny 1.39 ore/beam (less than vanilla, especially considering that the iron plates themselves only go down to 1.12 ore / plate !),
but, as you can see, it has taken me a long time :

(I play with Very Small resource size and Very poor richness, as usual, but Normal Frequency, as it affects the other 2 settings in 0.16...)
and with biters, already up to red ones, having settled in the nearby forest, getting rid of them was quite painful !
Then I could only afford to have 2 miners per iron/copper on my secondary spots, as, unlucky me, they were desert-side. (Alien Biomes making fighting on an un-paved desert a losing proposition, as it dramatically cuts down your movement speed.)
Oh, also, no dodging spitter/worm shots in 0.16 !
Though, later, fighting Blue Biter settlers was actually easier, as, while I couldn't afford to kill them (regular ammo was useless, and I couldn't afford the dozens of grenades per biter required), I could fairly easily wall them in / belt them around until they got bored and went back home...

Glad to know I'm not alone in the struggle, though if default biter settings are forcing me to play at a snail's pace, I can't imagine a death world being a fun idea...

On the other hand, I fucked it up by NOT beelining to iron1 then iron2 - and it's not like I wasn't aware that it couldn't happen, having played Angel's before !
So, my initial iron&copper deposits didn't last long

I've been looking over the recipes and it seems like Py offers a lot of options to just pull iron (or other materials) straight out of dirt/water/air. Given that, is running out of starting deposits that big of a deal?

Finally, I've tried out dozens of power combinations, but only Fawongae => Coke => vanilla Boiler seems to be worth it, as Wood Processing Units, and especially, Combustion Turbines pollute way too much !

Really? I think the balance has changed, since my power system running on a fawogae-->coal-->coke/gas-->synth--->combustion seems to be almost totally neutral in terms of pollution...?

[BlueTemplar]

On the other hand, I fucked it up by NOT beelining to iron1 then iron2 - and it's not like I wasn't aware that it couldn't happen, having played Angel's before !
So, my initial iron&copper deposits didn't last long

I've been looking over the recipes and it seems like Py offers a lot of options to just pull iron (or other materials) straight out of dirt/water/air. Given that, is running out of starting deposits that big of a deal?

Well, except the two earliest options that I see require almost as much teching than iron2, buildings with a lot of steel in them, and don't seem to be really efficient ? (Haven't done the math though...)

Finally, I've tried out dozens of power combinations, but only Fawongae => Coke => vanilla Boiler seems to be worth it, as Wood Processing Units, and especially, Combustion Turbines pollute way too much !

Really? I think the balance has changed, since my power system running on a fawogae-->coal-->coke/gas-->synth--->combustion seems to be almost totally neutral in terms of pollution...?

0.16 :

Code: Select all

    name = "boiler",
[...]
    energy_consumption = "1.8MW",
    energy_source =
    {
      type = "burner",
      fuel_category = "chemical",
      effectivity = 0.5,
      fuel_inventory_size = 1,
      emissions = 0.1 / 6.5, -- = 0.01538...

Code: Select all

    name = "gasturbinemk01",
[...]
    energy_source = {
        type = "electric",
        usage_priority = "secondary-output",
        emissions = 0.04

So a turbine emits 2.6 times more pollution per output kJ than a boiler.

0.17 :

Code: Select all

    name = "boiler",
[...]
    energy_consumption = "1.8MW",
    energy_source =
    {
      type = "burner",
      fuel_category = "chemical",
      effectivity = 1,
      fuel_inventory_size = 1,
      emissions_per_minute = 30,

Code: Select all

    name = "gasturbinemk01",
[...]
    energy_source = {
        type = "electric",
        usage_priority = "secondary-output",
        emissions_per_minute = 0.06,

Ok, I don't remember what the typical power output of a turbine is, but now one, at full power, emits 500 times less than a boiler !
I'm guessing that this is a bug, and at some point the emissions have been divided by 60, instead of being multiplied by 60 ?

(Also, in 0.17 Botanical Nurseries, and especially Fawongae, now not only don't emit pollution, but even absorb it I think?)

[kingarthur]

(Also, in 0.17 Botanical Nurseries, and especially Fawongae, now not only don't emit pollution, but even absorb it I think?)

Yes. The farms and things like that do eat pollution. There are a few that do that and I believe more will be added with pyal

[mrvn]

(Also, in 0.17 Botanical Nurseries, and especially Fawongae, now not only don't emit pollution, but even absorb it I think?)

Yes. The farms and things like that do eat pollution. There are a few that do that and I believe more will be added with pyal

Note to self: Build Fawongae plants all around base to keep in the pollution. Keep moving them outward as you expand and keep polluting stuff in the middle.

Where you put them doesn't change the evolution but eating up pollution before it reaches aliens sure does prevent them attacking.

[BlueTemplar]

I guess that they only absorb in proportion of them being powered (and not backed up) ?

[kingarthur]

I guess that they only absorb in proportion of them being powered (and not backed up) ?

my understanding is they absorb the pollution as they are "crafting"