PyBlock (alpha)

[kingarthur]

ok so first version of a .17 copy of pyblock is live freaking finally. took me way to damn long to get it done

[chrisdec]

hey is rso supporting pyblock?

[kingarthur]

hey is rso supporting pyblock?

No I use my own system for it and I dont even know if rso would handle what I need it to do

[chrisdec]

thanks ill disable it then

[BlueTemplar]

Hi, thanks a lot for this.

One question about the Iron/Copper from Tar recipe :
I get that it is to speed up early game, but isn't making this recipe 100 times more efficient for iron/tar compared to PyCoal, and 56.25 times more efficient for copper/tar* a bit too generous ?

*(or is it 52 times? my math doesn't seem to exactly fit with what Factorio shows?)

[kingarthur]

Hi, thanks a lot for this.

One question about the Iron/Copper from Tar recipe :
I get that it is to speed up early game, but isn't making this recipe 100 times more efficient for iron/tar compared to PyCoal, and 56.25 times more efficient for copper/tar* a bit too generous ?

*(or is it 52 times? my math doesn't seem to exactly fit with what Factorio shows?)

not sure. pycp has them at a rate of 1 ore with a probability of 0.4. 52 sounds right but not sure i did the math in my head correctly

i wouldn't consider it generous as its supposed to be the main source of ore given that unlike base game you cant mine any ore patches and your only other source of ore is one of the rocks. which are pretty limited and completely rng based after the first iron and copper rock spawn.

you also have to factor in the fact that with pyrawores iron ore to plates starts at a rate of 8:1.

there also the fact that i had picked those numbers before i added the cheaper wrought iron and starting buildings to make getting going a bit easier so as to reduce the "im sitting here waiting on X" that comes with the starting period.

ill take a look soonish and see what kind of impact a lower amount has on things or at least look into making it have an expensive mode.

[BlueTemplar]

It's more that I'm wondering if resources won't get too cheap once getting to the ore processing recipes (while Iron Ore processing 1 is not *that* far at 380 science1 away...)

Also, first science, yay !

[BlueTemplar]

Tailings-forming the sea !

[BlueTemplar]

Welp, took another 4 hours to research 80 science1 and that Coal Processing 1 tech !

CoalProc1_res_done.png (1.12 MiB) Viewed 6172 times

And I accumulated quite a bit of resources for this "tier 0.5 of resource processing" that are the new in 0.17 "hot air" recipes !

CoalProc1_res_done_factory.png (3.69 MiB) Viewed 6172 times

(Though, because I did the mistake of powering stuff with coke, like I did in 0.16, except it was a mistake, because in 0.17 the coke and/or coal gas recipe has been heavily nerfed it would seem - the result being more than 4 times the tar, and therefore, ore !)
EDIT : No, I confused it with the (Coal Processing 2?) Coal => Coke recipe...

[BlueTemplar]

There's probably an issue with the Wrought Iron Plate + Hot Air => Iron Plate recipe :

iron_trough_wrought.png (416 KiB) Viewed 6168 times

It's better than the most complex tier 1 iron recipe !

iron1.png (574.15 KiB) Viewed 6168 times

In fact I'm pretty sure of it, as it allows you to make iron plates from hot air !!

wrought_infiniron.png (342.98 KiB) Viewed 6168 times

[BlueTemplar]

What is the point in Botanical Nurseries, considering how much more expensive they are, compared to Crude Nurseries, for only +33% speed ? And they need power and water too! Looks like there's no point in them until at least Coal Processing 2...

P.S.: Similar question for the Burner* Wood Processing Units vs the (Electric) Wood processing Units :
they have the same efficiency and speed, but the electric one is quite a bit more expensive !
It doesn't feel like it's worth it, just to get rid of the steam pipes...

*shouldn't it be Steam, rather than Burner ?

P.P.S.: Same for Fawogae to Coal compared to Logs to Coal : sure, the Fawogae take less space, but that's like 44 landfill per plantation, which isn't much compared to the difference in cost ! And again, they need power and water... Also wood distillation produces a lot of useful "waste" products !

[kingarthur]

What is the point in Botanical Nurseries, considering how much more expensive they are, compared to Crude Nurseries, for only +33% speed ? And they need power and water too! Looks like there's no point in them until at least Coal Processing 2...

P.S.: Similar question for the Burner* Wood Processing Units vs the (Electric) Wood processing Units :
they have the same efficiency and speed, but the electric one is quite a bit more expensive !
It doesn't feel like it's worth it, just to get rid of the steam pipes...

*shouldn't it be Steam, rather than Burner ?

P.P.S.: Same for Fawogae to Coal compared to Logs to Coal : sure, the Fawogae take less space, but that's like 44 landfill per plantation, which isn't much compared to the difference in cost ! And again, they need power and water... Also wood distillation produces a lot of useful "waste" products !

Well the crude nurseries should only be able to use the one wood from nothing recipe which is a lot slower than the other recipes. There are a couple of recipes before coal processing 2 that save time when making logs.

On the "burner" wood processing unit and the like. The electric ones benefit from the more fuel efficient options to make power where as the steam ones will continue burn a ton of fuel in the boilers making steam.

And yes the names should probably be updated since they no longer directly burn fuel.

On the fawogae to coal. That's just base pymods. Its usefulness isnt something I really looked into as you said the other method gives byproducts you definitely want now but I see no particular reason to remove it.

[BlueTemplar]

Well, yes, the +33% that I was talking about is the one comparing the 3 Logs in 80s recipe of Crude Nurseries to the 3 Logs in 60s + Water (+Electric Power) of Botanical Nurseries.
There's otherwise the ash recipe, but ash is going to be hard to come by before CoalProc2... and will all be used up by Science2 anyway !

But I guess that this setup would have been more compact by using the Botanical Nurseries :

wood2coal.png (4.4 MiB) Viewed 6115 times

(I also had a big tailings spill there : I guess that I forgot to disconnect after the first spill? Also, I didn't think that it would destroy the stone bricks in the process...)

Ah, right, the combustion tower? Yeah, I've tried dozens of combinations in regular Py in 0.16, but they were all much worse than the Fawogae => Coal => Coke => vanilla Boiler option, due to the HEAVY pollution of combustion towers... (and Wood Processing Units).
Obviously, pollution has no effect in PyBlock... (so I've disabled it).

Oh, not remove the Fawogae => Coal recipe, but maybe rebalance it somehow? Though it will probably not be easy...
I guess that it at least has the advantage of relative simplicity going for it ? (The main issue is probably that it's the Crude Nurseries that are too good anyway, I didn't really try comparing the Plantation cost to Botanical Nurseries...)

[BlueTemplar]

In Py, (at least if it hasn't changed since 0.16), non-basic ores require fluids to mine :
Tin requires Steam
Aluminum requires Coal Gas
Borax and Chrome require SynGas
Lead requires Acetylene
etc.

Why have these requirements not been used in the Quenching Tower recipes ?
I predict that this is going to change the balance of a *lot* of recipes using non-basic metals as catalysts !
(For instance it might make producing Coal Gas from Heavy Oil and Syn Gas from Oleochemicals viable...)

[Hratt]

Been having a good time with the current version of this pack!

PyBlock Factory.png (292.79 KiB) Viewed 6027 times

I may landfill out to the boonies and make a large sub-factory for phosphine gas from reefs as reapersms pointed out in March? It looks like quite the undertaking...

From rough math I need like 21 belts of stone and 16 belts of coke supplying and powering a 500 mW monstrosity to get 12.8 phosphine gas per second for 2 circuit 2 per second? Guessing the space requirement from the collective couple thousand buildings are about as large as my current factory... ha ha ha... ha

[zizzleswomp]

Nice! I'm addicted to restarting so I never get very far, but this inspires me to hang in there a little longer on my current run.

Also just wanted to chime in with a thanks to KingArthur for this mod. It's my favorite way to play PyMods.

[Hratt]

All that stuff on the left for a little bit of Phosphate Rock lol

[kingarthur]

All that stuff on the left for a little bit of Phosphate Rock lol

mind sending me a copy of that save. phosphate rocks been on my list to get a look at for awhile but thats a little beyond way to damn much stuff for earlyish game

[BlueTemplar]

I have a phosphate rock pretty close to my starting position (you can see it in the screenshot on the map, south) - is that not intended for one to always be close (north-west are iron and copper rocks), and I got lucky ?

[kingarthur]

I have a phosphate rock pretty close to my starting position (you can see it in the screenshot on the map, south) - is that not intended for one to always be close (north-west are iron and copper rocks), and I got lucky ?

you got lucky af. go play the lottery.

other than iron and copper all other ores are as close to completely random as a computer can get. other than the starting iron and copper to help keep the game start from being overly slow the rocks are not intended to be the main source of ore and more of a exploration reward. most of them you cant even use till a decent way into the tech tree. although i think pyanodon lower the tech requirement recently in an update.

which reminds me i dont remember if i made a early game copper miner i will check on that.