Peace with Aliens

Give feedback on topics proposed by the developers.
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Ranger_Aurelien
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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Ranger_Aurelien »

zOldBulldog wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:54 am
Even without any of the above, you can launch a rocket without ever fighting an alien if you build small and use No Expansion, max the Starting Area size, and max the deposit richness settings. These kinds of settings are typically used by people attempting the No Spoon achievement.
Try Island 75% size or so, and you can have peace with aliens on otherwise default settings -- you and they can start on separate islands!
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azizmandar
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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by azizmandar »

Normally when a game had pollution it means you need to manage it. It took weeks for me to realize that reducing pollution really only impacted how often you get attacked and how fast the enemy changes.

Having a path that encourages eco friendly play would likely become the path most new players take at first. I could see it being a tricky and achievement worthy goal since the less pollution solutions tend to need more space (like solar) and natives don't tend to like being asked to move.

If you do add something like this I'd really enjoy trying it out.. but I'm not sure if it will replace the way I play the most.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by FredHp »

Peace with aliens? IMHO a wall of lasers is the best way to make peace....

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MEOWMI
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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by MEOWMI »

I recently did a pacifist playthrough where I purposefully kept pollution low and built my base to minimize its harm (actually by maximizing area, so that there is more nature to absorb the pollution).

I thought it was a really interesting idea and actually got quite far, enjoying the various new challenges that it presents, a very fresh take on the game, but towards the last half of it I noticed that aliens do actually spread out regardless of pollution (and thus conflict is inevitable), later reading up on the wiki to confirm this suspicion.

Playing it much past launching a rocket is at least hard and maybe even impossible due to the increasing alien nest density, but a rocket launch is all you need I think - that's where the many parts of the game end.

To this end, I do fully support the idea of making pacifist a viable playstyle, even if no-one is going to accidentally play like it, especially since it already seems so close to possible with the current game mechanics (which perhaps disregards the technical challenge of retaining vengeful expansion from destruction of old nests).

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Serenity09 »

I love this idea! I don't find fighting them fun, and i still think i'll probably just prefer flat peaceful most of the time, but there are moods where i think i'd like an inbetween. Something that gave me a few problems, but maybe ones that had more mutualistic requirements / outcomes. Would you ever consider alien factions?

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by dgnuff »

Interesting idea. Earlier in the thread, the idea of trade / communication was suggested, but the counter-argument was given that the Biters didn't seem intelligent enough for this. That's a good point, but here's a suggestion to work around it.

Let's say there is some sort of "Hive Overmind" that is a collective intelligence of the Biters. Sure, the individuals aren't at all smart, but the Overmind is. It just doesn't know who we are, all it can see is that we're on the planet, producing tons of pollution. Therefore it thinks we need to be removed. If it was able to detect that we're actually trying to minimize the pollution, that would be a first step.

Maybe some research could uncover things it considers useful / valuable that we could make. That would be the next step, and just let it progress from there. At the grand scale, this could possibly provide an alternate end-game. How fast can we create trade goods for them that can be exchanged for Artifact Science Packs that could then be used in place of Space Science Packs for end-game research.

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MetereX
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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by MetereX »

I think i'd be cool and a new playstyle is never a bad thing, but I think it would go against the theme of the game.
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SunWolf
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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by SunWolf »

I think best way to integrate such idea is to make it as another way to eliminate threat trough technological craft line system.

1. To make new craft tree similiar to military. to make same difficiulty&timebuild as military, but in diffrent way, eco way.
so in this way you will change ecosystem in planet making whole green and milky, and therefore aliens devolve to death.

2. To pacify with aliens is not possible, since they look and are ugly parasites. you cannot transform parasites. parasites consume death&life to exist. but if you change ecosystem, they source of nutrition will disapear together with them. i think is best way to integrate new craft tree and way to deal with them. Air purify, atmosphere regeneration, water cleansing etc.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by TheRangerLOL »

dgnuff wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:13 am
Let's say there is some sort of "Hive Overmind" that is a collective intelligence of the Biters. Sure, the individuals aren't at all smart, but the Overmind is. It just doesn't know who we are, all it can see is that we're on the planet, producing tons of pollution. Therefore it thinks we need to be removed. If it was able to detect that we're actually trying to minimize the pollution, that would be a first step.
I just want a pet spitter.

MetereX wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 7:27 pm
I think i'd be cool and a new playstyle is never a bad thing, but I think it would go against the theme of the game.
As the developers, they are the ones that are capable of changing the theme of their own game.

SunWolf wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:22 pm
I think best way to integrate such idea is to make it as another way to eliminate threat trough technological craft line system.
...
So your proposal is to implement a way to create grand-scale genocide? As if the nukes and artillery and spidertrons weren't already enough.
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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Koub »

SunWolf wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:22 pm
2. To pacify with aliens is not possible, since they look and are ugly parasites. you cannot transform parasites. parasites consume death&life to exist.
Missed that one. Yo do realize that the paraistes are not the biters (the natives), but the engineer (the invader) ?
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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Elwis »

I am new to Factorio. I watched a few YouTube videos in the last couple of years and I didn't like the graphics. I watched YouTube again a couple of months ago and I see that the graphics have changed a lot. I liked it so much that I downloaded a demo which I also enjoyed very much so I bought the game and recently finished my first rocket launch.

I like all aspects of the game except the military. I really don't want to be that kind of human being killing other living beings even if it is just a game. It is just my personality. I would like if there was an option mentioned in this thread or/and even some non-military mode where majority military items/science is replaced with something else. I don't want to have just an option of removing the military because it also removes the complexity of the game. It could be replaced with some food/medicine production to help natives and get something for exchange.

This is a very nice post I found about this subject https://molily.de/antagonism-human-nature/ saying "I have counted 129 civil items, 10 dual use items and 44 military items."

I found an old interesting mode https://mods.factorio.com/mod/peacemod/ ... 1024d761d2 which I don't know if it works but that is not complex enough most likely with outdated graphics.

I am glad that there are like minded people who also would like none military Factorio. I don't mind having a gun in my pocket and shooting trees but not anything else.

What are your recommended recent mods with nice graphics to get more complexity without military and war items?

For now, I set the settings to Peaceful, and almost removed all natives, just left them here and there so I can have them on the map but should be able to avoid them.

Thanks.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by argbla »

Koub wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:44 am
SunWolf wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:22 pm
2. To pacify with aliens is not possible, since they look and are ugly parasites. you cannot transform parasites. parasites consume death&life to exist.
Missed that one. Yo do realize that the paraistes are not the biters (the natives), but the engineer (the invader) ?
You're characterization is incorrect as well. A parasite deceives or manipulates its host to leach off of them and does not want to outright kill them. The engineer is a competitor. Both the bugs and the engineer would be best off with the other out of the way.

Due to pervasive postmodern ideology people have gotten confused about these ideas and seem to think we should become "friends" with everything, no matter the differences of interests. This results in situations where people are so desperate to become "friends" they open themselves up to a parasitic relationship with groups that can not otherwise offer a mutual relationship. Yes, postmodernism is an ideology by and for parasites.

So ironically, exploring this question of how to become "friends" with the bugs, if you take the advice of the theory which likely prompted the idea of becoming friends at all, it would be to feed them at your own expense, make them dependent and domesticate them, all the while continuing to ravage their planet while convincing them it's "for the greater good". Under this situation, the Engineer would have become subversive of the natives, and parasitic if the natives help him do it, analogous to more primitive parasites emitting chemicals which neutralize the hosts immune response or make the hosts behavior self destructive. Most people would not consider this peaceful, let alone friendly. By some measures, subversion is antithetical to a positive relationship more than outright conflict.

Alternatively, the bugs could be pacified by gifts of some kind, else they will harass your factory. If their demands aren't met, they'll make your life harder. This is another strategy, where the parasite makes it much easier for the host to pacify the parasite than to get rid of it. Not exactly a friendly relationship either, and can even be subversive if the Engineer is tricked in to thinking he isn't being taken advantage of. Or, if the biters are made strong enough to destroy the Engineer if he doesn't comply, that would be the bugs subjugating the Engineer. While forced labor might not be peaceful exactly, it does sound like a fun game mode (basically an expanded Supply Challenge scenario).

All that aside, the fundamental situation does not lend itself to allegiance or peace. Apart from completely redesigning what biters are and turning the game in to a sort of diplomacy simulator, there's no way of turning the bugs in to friends that isn't a cheap idealistic fantasy.

Though all of this is besides the point. The game isn't about the bugs, it's about a factory. The bugs play but a bit role in your troubles. For a truce to be a better option than forcibly telling them to go away, they would have to be too strong to handle otherwise. A diplomacy system certainly could be fun, but I'm not sure that would be a positive addition to a game like Factorio as it stands.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by AyleeJenn »

Oh my, this thread heated up since I last checked it. :shock:

I could see the potential for a mod here as mentioned by someone named dx4 a couple pages earlier:

# a scripted gauge (diplomacy??) is introduced that can fill from zero to one hundred
# biter and enemy base kills reduce that gauge by a division (formula -> gauge value = friendly action/ enemy kills)
--> that way the biters "don't forget aggression against them" but if you make enough friendly action, they can forgive
# introduce friendly action of some sort (putting something onto a nest for example, I donno)
--> that will complete the gauge formula = friendly action / enemy kills
# have a scripted switch that turns biters into "peaceful mode" once a certain "gauge value" has been reached (perhaps 50+ ? that way you can build into enemy bases and .. automate! .. delivery of friendly action :D)
# introduce a way to request a spawner (as a placeable entity) from the enemies that absorbs pollution with the requirement of having a gauge value of 90+ or something
# possible issue: you'd have to introduce a way to cause biters to still attack due to pollution if the diplomatic player is not careful after managing a "cease-fire" but if biters are set to peaceful mode, they can't actually attack unless attacked first which technically speaking makes requesting a spawner from them to absorb pollution not necessary since they are not going to attack anymore anyways :? Maybe if pollution reaches a base after "cease-fire" is established the scripted switch that set them to peaceful mode sets them to normal mode again? That way you could even be a true villain and first establish a cease-fire only to betray them if you are so inclined.
# you could even introduce a diplomacy research tree where several "tiers" of friendly action can be researched each recipe priced differently and with a different output of "friendly action supplies" you would deliver in your efforts of diplomacy

... this is really just a very quick and probably not very thought out concept but I could see potential for a mod in this. I mean, why not? Factorio is very modder friendly and all about what people make of it both during a gaming session and outside of it.


edit: my formula probably won't work, it .. uh .. features divisions by zero :D maybe one of you math inclined people can come up with a better one

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by blazespinnaker »

argbla wrote:
Wed Dec 09, 2020 1:40 am
Due to pervasive postmodern ideology
I think the term you were looking for was symbiosis, and the concept has been around for about 150 years or so.

Or maybe that was just some satire of starship troopers and I missed the joke.
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