[MOD 0.14] Alien Biomes

[Earendel]

Landfill does work on shallow water.

It is probably that NiceFill is replacing it with more shallow water, if so, that mod needs to not treat shallow water as land.

[Earendel]

It's picking them up again (as well as inserters, pipes, walls...) that can be tricky if you don't want to cut down the trees... (before bots / without bluebuild)

I have set trees to have a selection priority of 0. This means that if there is anything else that can be selected at the mouse position, that thing will be selected first: Power poles, ore, belts, even items on the ground.

Generally the trees will still be selectable between the other items, such as between ore clusters.

[BlueTemplar]

Awesome !

[Solinya]

I've been playing with this mod for a while, but one of the games I started using v0.4.6 generated some ice "splotches" that look a little weird. I don't recall this happening on previous versions. I don't know if one of your later updates addresses it either, since I just found out there's newer versions and I can't regenerate terrain.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

Splotch.jpg (192.07 KiB) Viewed 7553 times

If the game version matters, I believe I started this map on 0.17.23.

[Earendel]

That can happen when the peak of a cold spot just tips the threshold of a single tile into the frozen biome, but that should be extremely rare. If you are getting multiple single tiles frequently then something is wrong. If so can you post a map screenshot so I can see where these spots are appearing and how frequently?

[Solinya]

Here's a zoomed out view where you can see several:

20190414220038_1.jpg (445.54 KiB) Viewed 7521 times

Some of them are kind of jarring like the one in the top right. I think my first screenshot was the one below the coal on the bottom and there's some more near the vertical rail line and again to the far west.

[MeduSalem]

Is the pollution absorbtion set up for tiles added by this mod?
I have strange effect with arctic terrain where I have leftover pollution on pretty big area on it that doesn't seem to dissipate. I'm not sure if it's because tiles don't absorb it or some base game bug that makes very small values of pollution fail to absorb properly.
It looks like this:
Pollution.jpg

The new factorio version changed how pollution works so I need to update all the tiles.

Pollution has been updated.
Volcanic and sand are low absorption.
Grass is high absorption.
Other terrain is medium.

I think there might still be something really off compared to the Vanilla tile absorption when it comes to pollution.

Only recently added the mod to a Angel/Bob test factory I am toying around with because I got sick of looking at the stock grassland, then used regenerate world to adapt the already generated tiles and then after a few hours of gameplay the autosaves started to take longer and longer. Way longer than they were even before I cut the map back down to the bare minimum due to the regenerate.

Before I added Alien Biome's my map had about 30-35mb... after the few hours it went way up to 105mb and still kept on growing in 10 minute intervals when the autosaves happened.

Naturally I started to look into the issue.

Eventually I figured that the pollution cloud spread much farther than it used to before... and with much... I mean way beyond 600% RSO starting area size which I chose on purpose to not be bothered/limited by biters so I could build the test base without interference.

I used Creative Mode to cheat walking speed etc I went looking for miles into the darkness (which I didn't explore before) and still at points I couldn't find where the pollution cloud stopped and eventually got tired out walking further out into the landscape haha.


Also maybe the problem is that my base is now basically located near huge deserts, arctic and wasteland... so pretty much no trees to absorb anything... so the pollution rolls straight over to adjacent chunks. A little further away there are huge forrests that break the landscape as well, much denser than the vanilla ones and still it feels like they aren't there at all.

The screenshots below are at the maximum zoom-out possible on the map screen. Meaning the red blob is really ridiculously HUGE for the size of the base. Well good I am using bob's modules to cut down on the number of machines and I know it can get quite ridiculous from that as well, but the vanilla tiles still seem to have aborbed it a lot better. In the meantime I put down some beacons with pollution cleaning effect modules, haha... and when I notice that it works I will once more regenerate the map to cut down on the file size. But I somehow consider the pollution cleaning modules even more cheaty than the speed modules... xD

screenshots

map2.JPG (76.06 KiB) Viewed 7481 times

map1.JPG (56.69 KiB) Viewed 7481 times

[Earendel]

I have done some testing.

The tile pollution absorption values for the different biomes are the same as vanilla.

The tree pollution absorption values are the same as vanilla.

There are more biomes in Alien Biomes that use the same absorption value as desert (volcanic).

There are more biomes in Alien Biomes that have low tree numbers (frozen, volcanic)

The average tree density of forests is in general reduced, so they absorb less pollution.

Also there was a change fairly recently were enemy spawners couldn't absorb infinite pollution anymore.

It is probably a combination of factors, but my guess is that the biggest change is the base game's change to spawners.

[MeduSalem]

I have done some testing.

The tile pollution absorption values for the different biomes are the same as vanilla.

The tree pollution absorption values are the same as vanilla.

There are more biomes in Alien Biomes that use the same absorption value as desert (volcanic).

There are more biomes in Alien Biomes that have low tree numbers (frozen, volcanic)

The average tree density of forests is in general reduced, so they absorb less pollution.

Also there was a change fairly recently were enemy spawners couldn't absorb infinite pollution anymore.

It is probably a combination of factors, but my guess is that the biggest change is the base game's change to spawners.

Ah that makes sense.

It could be that the pollution system is completely haywire/bugged in general though because I loaded an autosave from yesterday before I slapped down the pollution reducing modules in beacons and started to add up all the pollution producing machines and come to about 6000-7000 units/minute as the production graph stated... but on the consumption side there it says that all things combined consume over 70000-80000 units/min (mostly destroying trees takes the cake with 55k alone, followed by normal trees with 11k, then about 7k on tiles... and some other minor pollution reducing things due to angel's bioprocessing garden but that's negligble). So from what I see actually the tiles should be consuming all the pollution on their own already, but obviously they don't as the cloud still continues to grow.

Something doesn't add up at all. How can the numbers not add up by a magnitude of 10. Something really weird is going on there.

And as you say... the spawners don't absorb anything at all. Aren't even listed in the graph. Seems like to happen because of peaceful setting... and during peaceful they don't produce attack groups which would reduce some of the pollution. But even then it seems extreme that the cloud extends even that far out.

Not even my vanilla test base with 1000 SPM which had about 10000-12000 pollution per second (before they changed it to be per minute with one of the recent updates) extended that far out.

[MeduSalem]

[...]

I did some further testing with regenerate terrain... casting it 3 times the past hour... and guess what. The source of the problem seems to be the regenerate terrain mod of yours.

It seems like it doesn't deal with the pollution properly after it is done regenerating the world. It spawns like tons of extra pollution units out of nowhere and it stacks further up every time one casts regenerate terrain. My factory is basically completely green-moduled already so it shouldn't be the source of it anymore.

In the pollution statistic screen you can clearly see the jumps generated in pollution consumption caused by regenerate world, which happens after it is done and pollution starts expanding outward, killing trees as necessary etc. Also you can see that the machines aren't even producing nearly as much pollution either.

Screenshots

map 4.JPG (156.41 KiB) Viewed 7400 times

But the sheer numbers of pollution per chunk are ridiculous. No wonder the cloud never stops to grow. Orzelek's numbers from the other previous page completely pale in comparison.

Screenshots

map3.JPG (80.82 KiB) Viewed 7400 times

Regenerate terrain doesn't help because it is the source of all the pollution.

I guess I will have to abandon the map because there is no way to cure this unless the regenerate terrain mod can be fixed.

Not really a problem for me since I wanted to start over anyway because the test map is getting too much of a belt salat madness anyway even though I actually wanted to avoid it, but that's what happens with Angel/bobs... haha.

Anyway I wanted to let you know that I found out that using the Regenerate terrain mod must be responsible for causing the mad pollution numbers.

Maybe the devs changed something gravely about the pollution system, hence why the calculation from the mod might be off.


[update]

After looking into the console commands I used the "/c game.player.surface.clear_pollution()" command to clear all the pollution. It removed the ridiculous cloud and the factory started to put normal/realistic values to the pollution cloud. Seems like I won't have to abandon the map after all.

But to narrow the issue down to the Regenerate terrain mod I did another regerate after that and it again added TONS of pollution out of nowhere.

So I can confirm... it definitely is the Regenerate terrain mod's way of re-adding the pollution to chunks that was causing the problems Also looked into your mod's files but I am too inexperienced with factorio modding/functions to grasp what might be wrong, but I at least get that you are taking the pre-regenerate values and then re-apply them after regenerating the chunks. What I can say though is that it adds at least something like 1000 times the value it should. Like from 0.4 I had one chunk pre regenerate it went to 400 post-regenerate for the same chunk... and of course if you cast multiple regenerates it then gets out of hand pretty fast if it always multiplies the pollution by a magnitude of 1000 or whatever. So I suggest you might have a look into that.

After confirming that I cleared all the pollution again so I can continue to play properly without having miles of killed trees haha.

[/update]

[Earendel]

Great work MeduSalem. That must have been difficult to track down. I will fix the Regenerate Terrain mod asap.

Edit: I have fixed the problem, pollution was being read from the wrong location. There is still a problem adding the pollution back to the correct location, the game engine seems to ignore it at the correct location so I have to move it to the world origin instead. At least it is the correct amount.

[thereaverofdarkness]

That can happen when the peak of a cold spot just tips the threshold of a single tile into the frozen biome, but that should be extremely rare. If you are getting multiple single tiles frequently then something is wrong. If so can you post a map screenshot so I can see where these spots are appearing and how frequently?

It seems to be seed based, as best I can guess. I once told you of a similar issue involving tiny patches of volcano terrain, back in 0.15--you said it was fixed, but I still have games that get the occasional tiny splotch of terrain (I haven't tried your latest update). It used to be stranger before, but now after the increased size of biomes, and your updates to the terrain generator, I don't see any problem with it. It's just a funny terrain feature I overlook and don't think much about.

[Anson]

when i used Alien Biomes, Dectorio and Asphalt Roads (and even more other mods) in 0.16, i always hit the "255 IDs" hardlimit of Factorio. thus i stopped using several of these mods, no matter how nice they looked and how much i would have liked to play with them. But now I'm about to start a new map, installed these mods again, and saw that they all have mod options to (de)select groups of tiles which will be quite helpful in reducing the number of used IDs.

but only the Asphalt Roads mod had nice detailed tooltips on those mod options, telling me exactly how many IDs are used or released by selecting specific groups and thus I'm able to tailor it to my needs, using up as much as 64 additional IDs towards the "255 ID" hardlimit (when selecting all groups) or as few as 0 IDs (when disabling all groups). it would be nice if other mods like Alien Biomes and Dectorio that potentially use up lots of IDs and that already have mod options to enable/disable groups of tiles, also would have such helpful detailed tooltips like Asphalt Roads (mentioning specifically these two mods since the combination of those three mods was the cause of my problem in the old 0.16 game).

currently, i seem to be below that limit, but i have many tiles disabled and also might add more mods. since i want to have as many nice tiles as possible and not need to disable tiles in a running map later, any help in the battle against the old "255 IDs" problem (eg by having those detailed tooltips, or in the case of Alien Biomes having any tooltips at all instead of "unknown key") would be appreciated. thanks.

ps: Alien Biomes has 40+ options "include tiles: xxx". does each option add only one single ID? or even 2,3,4 or more? (for a total of 40,80,120,160,...)

[RocketManChronicles]

when i used Alien Biomes, Dectorio and Asphalt Roads (and even more other mods) in 0.16, i always hit the "255 IDs" hardlimit of Factorio. thus i stopped using several of these mods, no matter how nice they looked and how much i would have liked to play with them. But now I'm about to start a new map, installed these mods again, and saw that they all have mod options to (de)select groups of tiles which will be quite helpful in reducing the number of used IDs.

but only the Asphalt Roads mod had nice detailed tooltips on those mod options, telling me exactly how many IDs are used or released by selecting specific groups and thus I'm able to tailor it to my needs, using up as much as 64 additional IDs towards the "255 ID" hardlimit (when selecting all groups) or as few as 0 IDs (when disabling all groups). it would be nice if other mods like Alien Biomes and Dectorio that potentially use up lots of IDs and that already have mod options to enable/disable groups of tiles, also would have such helpful detailed tooltips like Asphalt Roads (mentioning specifically these two mods since the combination of those three mods was the cause of my problem in the old 0.16 game).

currently, i seem to be below that limit, but i have many tiles disabled and also might add more mods. since i want to have as many nice tiles as possible and not need to disable tiles in a running map later, any help in the battle against the old "255 IDs" problem (eg by having those detailed tooltips, or in the case of Alien Biomes having any tooltips at all instead of "unknown key") would be appreciated. thanks.

ps: Alien Biomes has 40+ options "include tiles: xxx". does each option add only one single ID? or even 2,3,4 or more? (for a total of 40,80,120,160,...)

I am currently playing with 108 mods, three of which are Alien Biomes, Dectorio, and Asphalt Roads. I have nothing disabled and everything works together; no limits reached.

[Omnifarious]

I have a small suggestion...

Since Factorio now has at least some support for automatically installing/enabling dependent mods, split out the code for Alien Biomes map generation from the art. This will make updates of the code much smaller. Make the code part depend on the art, and tell people that the art does indeed install the art, but doesn't do anything to ever make it show up in the game.

It's possibly a bit of a support problem. But it does save a lot of bandwidth for mod downloading.

[Astrella]

Is there a way to reduce the amount of shrubs and other filler the mod spawns? This is just my personal opinion but I prefer the bit less asset-laden look of core Factorio but do like the extra biomes so I was wondering if there was a setting.

[myricaulus]

Dear Earendel,

there is a small issue regarding the tree hit boxes when blueprinting through forests: some trees dont get deconstructed due to their small hitboxes when placing pipes. I had written an official bug report for that, but they claim it to be the fault of one of my loaded mods, most likely Alien Biomes. So do the hit boxes of your trees as seen in viewtopic.php?f=48&t=74975 are smaller then vanilla? If so i couldn't find a setting to set them to vanilla nor am i capable to find a way to find the mod which is altering the hit boxes of trees

[BHakluyt]

Yeah, I can confirm the above. I get trees between two transport belts sometimes...

[RocketManChronicles]

Dear Earendel,

there is a small issue regarding the tree hit boxes when blueprinting through forests: some trees dont get deconstructed due to their small hitboxes when placing pipes. I had written an official bug report for that, but they claim it to be the fault of one of my loaded mods, most likely Alien Biomes. So do the hit boxes of your trees as seen in viewtopic.php?f=48&t=74975 are smaller then vanilla? If so i couldn't find a setting to set them to vanilla nor am i capable to find a way to find the mod which is altering the hit boxes of trees

Are you using Squeak Through or even Decotorio? Either of those can adjust tree hitboxes.

[myricaulus]

Are you using Squeak Through or even Decotorio? Either of those can adjust tree hitboxes.

No, i dont. I also dont think any other mod *should* modify my tree hit boxes AFAIK.
The list of my mods are:

Code: Select all

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  21.167 Checksum of stdlib: 68667574
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