Development and Discussion

[AcolyteOfRocket]

Hi Angel.

I am presently playing a game that involves widely dispersed resources, exploration, deathworld and a bunch of other mods along with yours

I have run into a problem where I need green fracture circuits to make blue science.
But I need silver bars to make green fracture circuits.
And I need blue science to make silver bars because I only have the four base starting ore in my start are (no Crotinnium or Jivolite) and the slag/crystalisation process to make silver ore needs blue science.

Basically I can't make blue science because I don't have access to crotinium or jivolite - is this requirement intentional ?

This isn't a fault with your mods, but rather my map design. But I would like to determine your design intent here before junking the map. Also maybe the issue is with the other mods anyway

I don't want any mods changing if this behaviour is intentional - I can always go play something easier - like seablock

[mrvn]

I've always wondered about that lack of Crotinium and Jivolite until I looked at the source. They are explicitly excluded from the starting area. With a large starting area that means one has to explore quite far to find any, which is a problem at the start. It forces you to face the aliens to get those two ores and I think that's intentional.

I wish there was an option for having Crotinium and Jivolite nearer but still have aliens farther away. It's too bad they both are defined by the starting area size.

[pezzawinkle]

You do not need those two ores till you start needing some of the more advanced materials, by that time, you should be more than able to annex that part of the map from the locals.

[mrvn]

You do not need those two ores till you start needing some of the more advanced materials, by that time, you should be more than able to annex that part of the map from the locals.

Except for the N:1 ore sorting to make up shortfalls in e.g. iron ore from the 1:N ore sorting recipes.

[Termak]

Fracture circuits? You mean the green catalysts? You can get blue science without them, just get your early resin from wood or ammonia from blue algae and research the slag processing first to get your hands on silver.

[mrvn]

I noticed that direct iron/copper/lead/tin takes crushed ores. Silicon, bauxite, silver you get from crushed ores but only with the mixed results. Direct silicon, bauxite, silver sorting needs chunks and is one tire harder. But for titanium, gold, uranium you get everything from crystals, direct or mixed.

Shouldn't the titanium, gold, uranium direct sorting need pure ore to make it one tire harder? And to make the pure ores useful when avoiding the mixed result sorting.

[MageKing17]

I noticed that direct iron/copper/lead/tin takes crushed ores. Silicon, bauxite, silver you get from crushed ores but only with the mixed results. Direct silicon, bauxite, silver sorting needs chunks and is one tire harder. But for titanium, gold, uranium you get everything from crystals, direct or mixed.

Shouldn't the titanium, gold, uranium direct sorting need pure ore to make it one tire harder? And to make the pure ores useful when avoiding the mixed result sorting.

I like the implication that Tungsten is on a "tier of its own", although I wish there was something to do with the other three purified ores when doing catalyst sorting.

Incidentally, Bob's recently added Thorium, which is currently not available through Angel's refining methods; maybe purified Saphirite+Rubyte+Crotinium could be used for Thorium sorting?

[canisdirusleidy]

Speaking of balance. Current Bob's mods set "Alloy processing 1" as prerequisite for "Electronics" which leads to a rather strange tech tree:

Screenshot_2019-05-24_00-22-18.png (330.26 KiB) Viewed 6811 times

Does it really need to research some expensive (in early game) techs just to get basic metal mixing furnace and start making basic electronic boards?

[mexmer]

Speaking of balance. Current Bob's mods set "Alloy processing 1" as prerequisite for "Electronics" which leads to a rather strange tech tree:
Does it really need to research some expensive (in early game) techs just to get basic metal mixing furnace and start making basic electronic boards?

not sure what you mean by expensive, even in terms of early game, getting metal mixing furnace is far from expensive.
just because there is 4 technologies for research, it doesn't mean it's expensive, you are most likely using other combination mod, that actually makes it expensive (from your point of view), but if you play pure AB (angels + bobs), it's nowhere near expensive ... yes it's more complex and more complicated than base game, but expensive? no , it's not expensive.

[jodokus31]

Speaking of balance. Current Bob's mods set "Alloy processing 1" as prerequisite for "Electronics" which leads to a rather strange tech tree:
Does it really need to research some expensive (in early game) techs just to get basic metal mixing furnace and start making basic electronic boards?

not sure what you mean by expensive, even in terms of early game, getting metal mixing furnace is far from expensive.
just because there is 4 technologies for research, it doesn't mean it's expensive, you are most likely using other combination mod, that actually makes it expensive (from your point of view), but if you play pure AB (angels + bobs), it's nowhere near expensive ... yes it's more complex and more complicated than base game, but expensive? no , it's not expensive.

Not a big issue, but its hardly comprehensible to have to research bronze smelting (or even copper/tin) at that stage. Alloy Processing of solder vs. bronze. And mixing furnace vs. angels alloy smelting.

[Termak]

It pushes electronics under the metallurgy which is bit deep for one of the most basic techs, sure you dont need it instantly but even i did wonder where is electronics when i started my current game. I mean the idea of getting the mixing furnaces and electronics early is that you dont need to instantly research the metallurgy which is kinda useless in very beginning.

[evandy]

I don't think I ever used the metal mixing furnaces, other than maybe one to make solder. But I am running with the metallurgy only patch maybe that is why? Have I missed anything? Maybe the recipe for the high tier mixing furnaces should be removed when working with the patch?

Can't recall using the chem furnace for much either, just the normal one... Maybe we should completely ditch the normal furnace with angels?

[alercah]

Metal mixing furnaces are regular furnaces but they can take multiple ingredients (and thus have to technically not be furnaces, as furnaces are limited to one. They're actually assemblers.) Chemical furnaces additionally add the fluid input needed for things like the new steel recipe.

In Angel's mods they're largely supplanted by the new refinement processes, but they're still capable of being used if you don't have the smelting patch. And there's some recipes (notably stone brick) that do require the old furnaces. I'm not aware of any recipes off the top of my head that require the M or C furnace lines with Angel's though, although they're still available without the smelting patch and can make the earlier tech lines much easier to work out.

[MageKing17]

A metal-mixing furnace (or multi-purpose furnace) is needed to make solder plate, copper-tungsten plate, tungsten carbide plate, and blue/orange alien alloy. A chemical-mixing furnace (or multi-purpose furnace) is needed to make lithium chloride (from lithia water), silicon carbide, silicon nitride, and lithium cobalt oxide. Any "standard" furnace recipes (e.g. stone brick, clay brick, basic plates, etc.) can also be made in a specialty furnace. With a full suite of Angel's+Bob's, it's not possible to get to a rocket launch without using both sets of specialty furnaces (or at least both sets of recipes, via multi-purpose furnaces), since even if you get all of your solder from metallurgy and all your lithium chloride from brown algae, you still need tungsten carbide plate and silicon nitride for heat shielding and silicon nitride for CPUs for Rocket Control Units.

[IanRaven]

Hi Angel,

Will you support Bobs thorium in resource refining in the future?

Thank you for your hard work.

[alercah]

Is the source code posted in a repository anywhere?

[evandy]

Hi Angel,

Will you support Bobs thorium in resource refining in the future?

Thank you for your hard work.

I'll second that request. I know Angel has been doing a great job squashing bugs and reacting to changes incoming from 0.17 and bob lately, so thanks for that!

Hopefully a simple matter of adding a combo sorting recipe, and maybe to the normal ore sorting chain too. Though it might be interesting to have Thorium only available through combo sorting? Whatever, it'll be useful/nice to have available eventually.

[mrvn]

Hi Angel,

Will you support Bobs thorium in resource refining in the future?

Thank you for your hard work.

I'll second that request. I know Angel has been doing a great job squashing bugs and reacting to changes incoming from 0.17 and bob lately, so thanks for that!

Hopefully a simple matter of adding a combo sorting recipe, and maybe to the normal ore sorting chain too. Though it might be interesting to have Thorium only available through combo sorting? Whatever, it'll be useful/nice to have available eventually.

As Thorium is highly advanced it might be a good candidate for needing pure ores. Or add it to the ferrous crystal sorting like chrome is only in cupric crystal sorting.

[evandy]

As Thorium is highly advanced it might be a good candidate for needing pure ores. Or add it to the ferrous crystal sorting like chrome is only in cupric crystal sorting.

I like the idea of pure ores. I don't like the idea of needing to do high-tier sorting for multiple ores only. I feel like there should be a way to direct-sort for everything (including chrome, honestly)

[Bizobinator]

Is it possible to get fuel values added to some of the other petrochemicals? I think Bob's mods has an oil burning boiler, but when I tested it, only crude oil worked as fuel? I'd love to burn natural gas, fuel oil, etc! ^_^