Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

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Koub
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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by Koub » Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:46 am

Hannu wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:34 am
Tekky wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:41 pm
Personally, I see no need for a Spidertron. However, since so many people want a Spidertron, and there has been so much hype about it over the years, I think it would be worth the effort for the devs to implement it.
Yes, it is difficult to see actual need.
I'd totally dig a spidertron ignoring cliffs/walls, trees, and other movement impairing terrain hazards. You hop into it, and can go through any kind of terrain - save for water - without being blocked in your progression by a forest, a rock, or anything. This would be an awesome vehicle.
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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by Hannu » Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:45 pm

nuhll wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:58 am
What you guys think about using a nuclear bomb under spidertron to launch and jump to a far destination? :lol:
I do not like this kind of fantasy tricks. This kind of trick could fit in some fantasy game in which magic has significant role, but factorio's world should work by reasonable and intuitive way. And you do not have to be highly educated engineer to have clear intuition that if you detonate atomic bomb under your vehicle, vehicle and you would be immediately evaporated.

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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by Tekky » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:09 pm

Hannu wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:34 am
Tekky wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:41 pm
But I think I would prefer it to be implemented as an optional mod. I'm not sure if I'd like to play multiplayer games where half the players run around in a Spidertron.
Maybe it would be better to give multiplayer server admins options to disable spidertron (and other techs and weapons too, if they feel that they do not fit well in multiplayer game). If someone does not like spidertron in normal game he can easily play without building it.
That's exactly why I am suggesting it to be implemented as an optional mod. The server admin always decides which mods are used in a game.

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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by Hannu » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:05 pm

Tekky wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:09 pm
That's exactly why I am suggesting it to be implemented as an optional mod. The server admin always decides which mods are used in a game.
It needs hard coding in C sources. I do not believe that it is possible with lua modding interface. At least with reasonable performance and flawless functions. But it would be great if there were some kind of modding interface for walking vehicles. Devs could provide basic spidertron and modders develop more creative metal monsters, like centipedes with venom claws able to kill behemoth biters instantly.

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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by Tekky » Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:08 pm

Hannu wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:05 pm
Tekky wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:09 pm
That's exactly why I am suggesting it to be implemented as an optional mod. The server admin always decides which mods are used in a game.
It needs hard coding in C sources. I do not believe that it is possible with lua modding interface. At least with reasonable performance and flawless functions. But it would be great if there were some kind of modding interface for walking vehicles. Devs could provide basic spidertron and modders develop more creative metal monsters, like centipedes with venom claws able to kill behemoth biters instantly.
Yes, I believe you are right that the features required by a Spidertron mod would require additions to the LUA modding interface, which would require changing the C++ source code. However, my argument is that these additonal features should not be used in vanilla. Instead, they should only be available to mods.

In that respect, this feature would be similar to the equipment grid. In vanilla, vehicles have no equipment grid, but Factorio still offers support for this feature to mods, and it is actually used by some mods (for example Bob's Mods).

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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by DaleStan » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:45 pm

Hannu wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:45 pm
you do not have to be highly educated engineer to have clear intuition that if you detonate atomic bomb under your vehicle, vehicle and you would be immediately evaporated.
This is, surprisingly, not true. You should read about something called "Project Orion".

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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by Hannu » Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:21 pm

DaleStan wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:45 pm
This is, surprisingly, not true. You should read about something called "Project Orion".
I know that crazy idea from beginning of space and atomic era. I believe that there are more reasons than environmental problems why it has stayed on papers. But in any case properties of small mountain sized fantasy space craft would not fit very well in virtual walking war machine. At least in my opinion.

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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by nuhll » Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:41 pm

Hannu wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:45 pm
nuhll wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:58 am
What you guys think about using a nuclear bomb under spidertron to launch and jump to a far destination? :lol:
I do not like this kind of fantasy tricks. This kind of trick could fit in some fantasy game in which magic has significant role, but factorio's world should work by reasonable and intuitive way. And you do not have to be highly educated engineer to have clear intuition that if you detonate atomic bomb under your vehicle, vehicle and you would be immediately evaporated.
Hahaha, like building electronic circuits out of copper wire and iron? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Or fighting aliens?

Or ... (add everything factorio does)...

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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by 5thHorseman » Sun Mar 31, 2019 11:16 pm

Hannu wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:45 pm
nuhll wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 10:58 am
What you guys think about using a nuclear bomb under spidertron to launch and jump to a far destination? :lol:
I do not like this kind of fantasy tricks. This kind of trick could fit in some fantasy game in which magic has significant role, but factorio's world should work by reasonable and intuitive way. And you do not have to be highly educated engineer to have clear intuition that if you detonate atomic bomb under your vehicle, vehicle and you would be immediately evaporated.
100% agreed. My giant walking spider car with laser beams for eyes needs - of all things - to remain realistic.

That said I don't like the idea. While it does not need to be "realistic" I think my giant walking spider car shouldn't be able to survive a nuclear blast.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by Hannu » Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:52 pm

nuhll wrote:
Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:41 pm
Hahaha, like building electronic circuits out of copper wire and iron? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Or fighting aliens?

Or ... (add everything factorio does)...
In my opinion there are significant differences. Materials are simplified but somehow look like realistic material process. You have to get certain ingredients and fabricate things through certain manufacturing process. Fighting is also like real. You have to get weapons and defensive measures and kill enemies before they kill you. It does not change intuition of fight if enemies are fictive arthropod monsters instead of humans speaking different language. But if you blow yourself with nuclear bomb and get teleported to somewhere in a controlled manner is just psychedelic fantasy. I know that there are people who like that kind of entertainment, but in my opinion that do not fit logical engineering games like Factorio.

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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by E-37 » Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:57 pm

I do think that spidertron would be really really fun for the first 20 mins after you get it but after that it wouldn't see that much use as just a way to get around outside your base. If you were able to ride it around your factory and not have to worry about collision, it would be useful since it would remove the frustration of walking around your base. But then what would happen is that you would leave spidertron when you got to wherever you were going and then when you need it again, it is still where you left it. That is if you can remember where you left it. I build 5+ cars in my factories and I can still never find any of them without the map.

Think of it like a car with no collision. Would you use a late game car that can drive through everything? I wouldn't.
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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by QGamer » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:39 am

E-37 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:57 pm
... But then what would happen is that you would leave spidertron when you got to wherever you were going and then when you need it again, it is still where you left it. That is if you can remember where you left it. I build 5+ cars in my factories and I can still never find any of them without the map.
Would you like the Spidertron if it had a feature where you could remotely summon it, and since it has no collisions it just walks in a straight line towards you?
That way all you need to do is press a button & wait for a little bit. Would that make it more appealing?

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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by Hannu » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:24 am

E-37 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:57 pm
Think of it like a car with no collision. Would you use a late game car that can drive through everything? I wouldn't.
I would certainly. Especially if it had maneuverability of Bob's Power armor MK 5 with crazy number of exoskeleton mark almost infinities. I think running speed is near 500 km/h and mechanics is same as walking and not stupid car mechanics (car should have turning radius dependent on speed as in real life, then driving would be much easier).

I do not understand that car forgetting problem. How could you find your car after work day or visiting a shop? How Factorio is different situation? It is virtual world but activates exactly the same functions in your brain than real remembering and navigation.

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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by Hannu » Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:30 am

QGamer wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:39 am
Would you like the Spidertron if it had a feature where you could remotely summon it, and since it has no collisions it just walks in a straight line towards you?
That way all you need to do is press a button & wait for a little bit. Would that make it more appealing?
That would be great function in spidertron. Same mechanics could be utilized also for example in guard bot which had predetermined route and would kill all nearby enemies. It would be option to turret lines. Player could choose between tedious building of turret lines and cheap operation and easier to install guard defense, which would need complex assembling setup and higher resource consumption. In my opinion Factorio need more such strategic decisions. Work vs. material resources is very typical strategic and tactical choice in normal engineering work.

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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by E-37 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:49 pm

Hannu wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:24 am
E-37 wrote:
Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:57 pm
Think of it like a car with no collision. Would you use a late game car that can drive through everything? I wouldn't.
I would certainly. Especially if it had maneuverability of Bob's Power armor MK 5 with crazy number of exoskeleton mark almost infinities. I think running speed is near 500 km/h and mechanics is same as walking and not stupid car mechanics (car should have turning radius dependent on speed as in real life, then driving would be much easier).

I do not understand that car forgetting problem. How could you find your car after work day or visiting a shop? How Factorio is different situation? It is virtual world but activates exactly the same functions in your brain than real remembering and navigation.
But my car is always parked at the same spot in real life. I also come out at the same spot. If I just wanted fast travel between two spots like in real life I would use a train which I can't lose in my base. I agree that crazy numbers of exoskeletons is very nice. With a button or caller function to call it to you when you need it, it would be very nice but only if it can move faster than the max number of exoskeletons on concrete can. It would be better walking then.
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Re: Friday Facts #120 - Spidertron

Post by dog80 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:48 pm

fun aside where is spidertron now? seriously

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