I decided to let a friend play the campaign without helping him to see his reaction (he is 23 years old and is used to more modern games) here is the result:
1) It was a disaster
2) The first part had the following issues
a) Basic mechanics not explained
- Friend didn’t know how to open the inventory (missed intruction)
- Had trouble using left or right click (at first he though the click moved the player), then the different ways of interacting with object with left click, right click or ctrl+click confused the hell out of him
b) Escape key did not cancel actions nor clear hand
- This was even a surprise for me (i have 350 hours of gameplay), and both for me and my friend pressing "Q" for this makes no sense
c) Compilatron problems
- Most of the time my friend missed what the compilatron had to say because the text was too small or because he was busy trying to figure out something different
d) Confusing interaction with objects
- Some objects were minable, others had to be opened to loot, others had to be rebuilt, etc. My friend ended up mashing buttons into each building in desperation of not knowing what to do.
3) The second part (with bitters) was even worst
a) My friend died at leat 5 times trying to defend the base, I couldn’t resist and decided to help. And I died too... I was ashamed.
b) I won't give more details about this because there is already a thread for that
My suggestions are:
1) Make another level, prior to the first one explaining even more basic stuff. Like controls, movement and player interaction with objects and shortcuts.
2) Explain the pollution mechanic, because this was the main reason we both failed against the bitters
3) Make the bitters a lot easier
4) Let be "esc" instead of "Q" the default key for clearing cursor
Thanks for this great game
Tutorial Feedback: Too confusing and hard for a new player
Re: Tutorial Feedback: Too confusing and hard for a new player
You mean make the biter the same toughness as before? You know that I've played many many maps and I've never lost a single game. I mean if that's the kind of game you want, maybe the developers should add difficulty levels, like in Civizilation. There's the Chieftain, Warlord, Prince, Deity, etc. and a special level called Beginner. That way everyone's happy. Before starting a game the player can make a conscious decision about how hard he wants to play. If they get beat hard and pounded into the ground in normal difficulty they'll think of 2 things, either 1) I should try again and try harder or 2) I should lower my difficulty setting.
It'll be somewhat of a badge of honor and something to keep pushing and playing the game is by going higher and higher in difficulty. Like in Civilization I used to play in 3rd level difficulty, then 4th, etc. Now I play 6th level of difficulty and I win about 25% of the time and that's what's fun for me. If I play the game at 3rd level difficulty it's just so boring.
It'll be somewhat of a badge of honor and something to keep pushing and playing the game is by going higher and higher in difficulty. Like in Civilization I used to play in 3rd level difficulty, then 4th, etc. Now I play 6th level of difficulty and I win about 25% of the time and that's what's fun for me. If I play the game at 3rd level difficulty it's just so boring.
Re: Tutorial Feedback: Too confusing and hard for a new player
I don't think thats what the campaign should be about.christian wrote: ↑Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:32 pmYou mean make the biter the same toughness as before? You know that I've played many many maps and I've never lost a single game. I mean if that's the kind of game you want, maybe the developers should add difficulty levels, like in Civizilation. There's the Chieftain, Warlord, Prince, Deity, etc. and a special level called Beginner. That way everyone's happy. Before starting a game the player can make a conscious decision about how hard he wants to play. If they get beat hard and pounded into the ground in normal difficulty they'll think of 2 things, either 1) I should try again and try harder or 2) I should lower my difficulty setting.
It'll be somewhat of a badge of honor and something to keep pushing and playing the game is by going higher and higher in difficulty. Like in Civilization I used to play in 3rd level difficulty, then 4th, etc. Now I play 6th level of difficulty and I win about 25% of the time and that's what's fun for me. If I play the game at 3rd level difficulty it's just so boring.
This game is extremly daunting for new players. Veterans already know how to play and they have no problems with new mechanics.
The campaign should be focused on allowing a first timer to get an idea of what factorio is about and learn the basic mechanic in a streamlined and fun way
Devs can always add "challenge" modes after that.
But I think is extremely important for the game future to have a proper campaign designed for new players.
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Re: Tutorial Feedback: Too confusing and hard for a new player
What do you mean by "modern" ?
Uh, AFAIK, WASD for movement controls is still pretty common in games (even 2D ones!).- Had trouble using left or right click (at first he though the click moved the player)
And IIRC it's the first thing being explained
(and IIRC you have to move out the starting 4 tiles before the tutorial continues, how did he do that ?).
I'm not sure what can be done about that - Factorio, like any software, assumes some basic familiarity with computers/other software...
This seems to be the crux of the issue.a) Basic mechanics not explained
[...] (missed intruction)
c) Compilatron problems
- Most of the time my friend missed what the compilatron had to say because the text was too small or because he was busy trying to figure out something different
(But doesn't Compilatron keep repeating stuff until you do it ?)
Is it too easy to Tab through those that can be tabbed through ?
Left click is extremely basic, see above.- Had trouble using left or right click (at first he though the click moved the player), then the different ways of interacting with object with left click, right click or ctrl+click confused the hell out of him
Maybe push back the introduction of ctrl+click ?
What actions ?b) Escape key did not cancel actions nor clear hand
- This was even a surprise for me (i have 350 hours of gameplay), and both for me and my friend pressing "Q" for this makes no sense
4) Let be "esc" instead of "Q" the default key for clearing cursor
It makes sense from the point of view of efficiency... teaching to use Escape even if it was enabled for clearing cursor would be bad... but not sure how to best teach Q for that...
Well, the tutorial is trying to cover most of the core interactions... What can be done about that ?d) Confusing interaction with objects
- Some objects were minable, others had to be opened to loot, others had to be rebuilt, etc. My friend ended up mashing buttons into each building in desperation of not knowing what to do.
First part of the first level is *supposed* to be that...1) Make another level, prior to the first one explaining even more basic stuff. Like controls, movement and player interaction with objects and shortcuts.
I'm not even sure that the pollution mechanic is being *used* in part 2 !2) Explain the pollution mechanic, because this was the main reason we both failed against the bitters
(It seems scripted.)
BobDiggity (mod-scenario-pack)
Re: Tutorial Feedback: Too confusing and hard for a new player
My psychic powers tell me this person plays mobile games.
Most of the problems you mention here are problems faced by someone playing their first KBM game. Confusion over left/right click, in particular, is something I pretty much never see unless someone is accustomed to a touchscreen. But the same problems you describe here are common to console-only players who move to a PC game.
I'm not sure this is someone who would voluntarily choose to play Factorio.
EDIT:
Ever play Minecraft?
Q = drop. E = inventory. Shift + Left Click = move stack.
Factorio was clearly designed by people who were familiar and comfortable with Minecraft.