Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Regular reports on Factorio development.
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christian
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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by christian » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:10 am

still no answer about what they mean when they say fluid algorithms?

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by CDarklock » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:15 am

christian wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:10 am
still no answer about what they mean when they say fluid algorithms?
I'm not clear on that either. I figure I'll just wait till the release and look at what actually made it in.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Serenity » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:15 am

christian wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:10 am
still no answer about what they mean when they say fluid algorithms?
This:
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-274

The optimizations are in:
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-271

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Drakken » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:16 am

I find it odd that so few people play at a level which includes the possibility of losing?

I die from biters more than 75% of the time and love that I fail.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Tricorius » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:01 am

Drakken wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:16 am
I find it odd that so few people play at a level which includes the possibility of losing?

I die from biters more than 75% of the time and love that I fail.
Honestly, looking forward to some of the biter bug fixes in 0.17. With the pollution fix, Death Worlds should be a lot more “Death”-y.

:D

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by 5thHorseman » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:09 am

Drakken wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:16 am
I find it odd that so few people play at a level which includes the possibility of losing?

I die from biters more than 75% of the time and love that I fail.
If a game takes less than 2 hours to play, losing is fine. If I'm in hour 150 of a factory no way am I restarting for any reason other than that I decided I was done.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Light » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:14 am

Drakken wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:16 am
I find it odd that so few people play at a level which includes the possibility of losing?

I die from biters more than 75% of the time and love that I fail.
I couldn't play without tension either. It's a solid motivator to not waste any time.

My ammo production sometimes outweighs my science production early on in most games. With Angel/Bob, Pitch Black, Nauvis Day, and Rampant mods installed, just a tiny factory setup can lead to game ending attack waves from the very start if you're reckless about pollution control. I'm always watching the minimap for the little dots, with radars a top priority to view their growing advance for world conquest.

The biter nest fixes of 0.17 will greatly increase the tension even further, I simply can't wait.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by christian » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:31 am

Serenity wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:15 am
christian wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:10 am
still no answer about what they mean when they say fluid algorithms?
This:
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-274

The optimizations are in:
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-271
Oh gotcha, so as I thought, the algorithm is the part about how fluid moves when it runs into an intersection. That's awesome that the multi-core optimizations are in.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by starxplor » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:39 am

5thHorseman wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:09 am
Drakken wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:16 am
I find it odd that so few people play at a level which includes the possibility of losing?

I die from biters more than 75% of the time and love that I fail.
If a game takes less than 2 hours to play, losing is fine. If I'm in hour 150 of a factory no way am I restarting for any reason other than that I decided I was done.
If you are in hour 150 and you die of bitter attack, you have no one to blame but yourself. A 150 hour old base should easily be able to defend its self unless you are provoking them by not managing pollution and/or not setting up and maintaining defences.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by 5thHorseman » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:59 am

starxplor wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:39 am
f you are in hour 150 and you die of bitter attack, you have no one to blame but yourself.
That was an example. As a player who won't accept losses in this game I don't know what the rest of you expect.

What is an approximate maximum number of hours in which losing all your work would not be your own fault?
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by CDarklock » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:07 am

Drakken wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:16 am
I find it odd that so few people play at a level which includes the possibility of losing?
According to Steam's global achievement stats, only 13.8% of players have the "smoke me a kipper" achievement, which implies that 86% of players have never won.

But I am pretty sure every active poster on this forum is in that 13.8%, and may even be in more rarefied company. I mean, how many of us have at least gotten close to a rocket per minute? Certainly not me... but it sure seems like a lot of us have.

Basically, we're probably not representative of the playerbase.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Xenomorph » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:21 am

CDarklock wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:07 am
According to Steam's global achievement stats, only 13.8% of players have the "smoke me a kipper" achievement, which implies that 86% of players have never won.
I don't care for any achievement on steam and I even don't know what I has to do to "winning" the game. I launched some rockets to space, not all with satelites. I used the most with mirv insted :twisted:
CDarklock wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:07 am
I mean, how many of us have at least gotten close to a rocket per minute? Certainly not me... but it sure seems like a lot of us have.
Is a rocket per second not a thing today?

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by fur_and_whiskers » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:25 am

CDarklock wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:07 am
Drakken wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:16 am
I find it odd that so few people play at a level which includes the possibility of losing?
According to Steam's global achievement stats, only 13.8% of players have the "smoke me a kipper" achievement, which implies that 86% of players have never won.

But I am pretty sure every active poster on this forum is in that 13.8%, and may even be in more rarefied company. I mean, how many of us have at least gotten close to a rocket per minute? Certainly not me... but it sure seems like a lot of us have.

Basically, we're probably not representative of the playerbase.
I made it my goal to finish the game and although it took me 3 false starts I got there in the end. I'm working my way to complete all achievements and only have no time for chit chat and there is no spoon to go. So I was a little surprised the first time I heard these statistics and reading posts by others who've never launched a rocket.

Its worth noting that people who choose to use mods don't get these achievements nor do people who didn't buy Factorio through Steam. No idea what the real statistics are though.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by CDarklock » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:31 am

Xenomorph wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:21 am
I don't care for any achievement on steam and I even don't know what I has to do to "winning" the game.
Maybe not knowing or caring about things is why they surprise you.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Drakken » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:41 am

Just because people don't finish the game, doesn't mean they have lost. Losing happens when the biters are literally shrinking your base and you are not able to hold them back anymore.

I imagine almost all of the people who never launched a rocket walked away becoming bored and/or overwhelmed by the late game complexity.

On my current account, I have never launched a rocket. Once I get far enough along that launching a rocket is inevitable, I usually restart because all of the challenge is gone.

I am hoping that eventually the biters become a threat in later stages of the game because I, and it seems most people who play this game, find the late game not worth playing... In fact, I rarely finish any strategy games. Once victory is secured, going through the motions for many hours to finish things off is not as exciting as starting a new game at harder settings... pushing the envelope... to see how tough of a map you can beat.

A rocket a second? I do not find that a desirable goal in any way shape or form. Nor do I want to make 5 gazillion circuits a minute. But, as they say, to each their own. I can make a map that ensures I will be able to unlock every single game achievement 100% of the time with no fear of losing. Why would I? I also don't play tic-tac-toe.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by WarmCat » Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:56 am

Well I’m looking forward to the minor science changes. It’s a great excuse to start a new factory and try things a little different this time!
Going to use single-ended trains this time, as I seem to always use 1-3-1 trains in my other play thrus.
Both me and my mate are home from work this week so maybe a day/night in with beers and pot noodles.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by Jesperhk » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:09 am

First, i can't wait for new release, its my 30th birthday on sunday, and i feel 0.17 is my gift :D

About the biter/lategame, i also kinda gets bored by the biters, cuz when you play on standard the biters wont get harder, its like when you get your wall up + blockwall + lasers and roboports, its kinda gameover for biters.
I useually have bobsmod warfare installed, just to have more defence options and enemys.

I would really like to see more enemys like flying or even underground enemy's, where you had to use SAM rockets for flying and maybe force people to use concrete on the ground to stop enemys from underground attacks. (something like that)

Also, i once saw some space base evolution, after sending rockets, is that scrapped or are people still working on that? :)


Sorry for my english.

Best regards
Jesper

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by irbork » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:12 am

I can already feel it. We will be playing 0.17 experimental today :D

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by CDarklock » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:18 am

Drakken wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:41 am
Just because people don't finish the game, doesn't mean they have lost.
I never said they did. But the Steam userbase is effectively a random representative sample of all users, which is statistically valid. Whatever percentage of "Steam users playing strictly vanilla" are completing the game, the percentage of "all users with or without mods" completing the game is probably not that different.

And if over 85% of players are abandoning the game, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for it to have tens of thousands of "overwhelmingly positive" reviews. A game that 85% of players abandon before completing is generally not a very good game. I think it's more likely that a substantial portion of those players are playing for a different objective, instead.

Also, while not finishing isn't the same as losing, losing is totally the same as not finishing.
Once victory is secured, going through the motions for many hours to finish things off is not as exciting
I don't see how the game becomes any less fun after you launch the rocket. If it was fun producing a thousand rocket parts and a satellite, why isn't it fun producing some other arbitrary thing? It can be whatever you want.

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Re: Friday Facts #283 - Prepare to Launch

Post by toastman » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:11 am

CDarklock wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:18 am
I don't see how the game becomes any less fun after you launch the rocket. If it was fun producing a thousand rocket parts and a satellite, why isn't it fun producing some other arbitrary thing? It can be whatever you want.
I think this logic is to simplified. The motivation for a game is different for each player. Some love open world games and set their own goals, other players explicitly need a predetermined goal which they need to achieve. This goal gives the game a sense, in Factorio the construction of a rocket. Once the goal is reached, the stimulus is suddenly missing. I hate to play games without purpose, i need a goal and some kind of meaningful progression. Just to build bigger bases with faster launching rockets isn't fun for me. For someone else it's the perfect goal.

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